So has paradox made it clear they are favoring people who play as vassals?

[Sirrobert1]

Not really.

One game I played as Emperor of rome and whenever I gave out a viceroyalty kingdom all my other dukes would go to war with him to get im to abdicated it back to me. I think gave it back to him and the same thing happened. It happened 5 times

It literally ruins immersion for them to just slap in "you can't intervene with vassals".

I find it funny the same people that are defending this are the same people who were saying that playing as a vassal in 2.4.5 is impossible. Its literally the tables turning and now you guys are saying we are overeacting.

I've always liked playing as a vassal, but the enforced internal peace was very annoying. It meant there were very long stretches of game where you could do literally nothing. This does a great job fixing that.
And I also like playing as top liege without internal peace. With HIP, that's a separate law, and one that I usually don't bother with. It pisses off the vassals, and gains me nothing.

So let's take your scenario: You make a decision, and the entire realm rebels against it. If you could go to war about that, what do you think would happen? Full out civil war that you'd probably lose.
You may shout about 'them going against the king's demands', but the king can't just go against his vassal's wishes either

 

[sigeena]

I once played as Henry the Lion, who is a direct count vassal under HRE. He starts as a 57 year old and 4 strong claims on neighbouring duchies. It's often a race to try and force the claims and it doesn't help that HRE tends to enforce realm peace. Without gaining favours from HRE, it'll be wasteful to start the claim wars.

 

[Vormaerin]

While I find that annoying also, I generally rationalize it with the idea that the war is really a proxy for the actual political machinations that the game just can't model. If your new vassal isn't strong enough to hold the title you gave him and so unpopular that that many of your vassals dogpile on him, then they are probably engaging in all kinds of political schemes to pressure you into not doing that in the first place. Are your major vassals not on the council or are you granting the viceroyalty without council approval? If they are voting to allow it and THEN attacking, that's kind of wonky. If you've denied them a vote (by law or not putting them on the council) or tyrannically overruled them, then no wonder they are upset.

These baronial wars are a lot more common than they were historically, but they replace the assortment of lawsuits and other political challenges and pressures that happened instead. You obviously don't have as much control over your vassals as you think

 

[orochi2k]

People forgot loyalty and honor for too long in this game. Why always overthrow your liege? You can just...well...let's say advise him from shadow.

 

[CaptainPolyp]

I just find it silly the game put in a "you can not intervene with your vassals war" button. It completely ruins immersion and it makes me feel like paradox is pandering to people who play as vassals.

It would be nice to be able to do that... with opinion penalty toward the other vassals though. You just put your nose in their business.
More importantly, the opposite should be also true: Being able to join your liege wars... And eventually being rewarded for your good services (opinion modifyier and if the opinion is sufficiently high, some new landed title, gold, marriage, coucil position, minor title... depending on the ambition). Would make playing as a loyal vassal much more interesting.

 

[Knotz]

This thread is weird, being a vassal constrains you quite a bit but yes, Paradox is totally shilling for the dirty, filthy vassal agenda.

 

[Tabris01]

Name me one medieval ruler in europe who could controll his vassals enoguh to ban any conflict between them AND enforce it

 

[napoleon_mayo]

Name me one medieval ruler in europe who could controll his vassals enoguh to ban any conflict between them AND enforce it

See thats not what im talking about it.

Conclave doesn't let you interfere at all. Nothing.

Atleast let us intervene at the cost of opinions or something, instead if coding in a "you cannot intervene with vassals war"

 

[TL_]

People can actually stand to play as vassals? Vassalage is a humiliating temporary thing that you must work to undo.

I am currently working on a game where I start as a count under the Pope and my challenge to myself is to never go independent. Which means to get a king title I need to get the Pope enough land to form Italia.

It's a lot more difficult in some ways than I expected. Especially because I had to spend decades reforming the laws! Council authority over imprisoning and banishment? No thanks!

 

[travro]

Atleast let us intervene at the cost of opinions or something, instead if coding in a "you cannot intervene with vassals war"

Or allow the player to intervene indirectly or even covertly, like loaning or even granting retinues, arrest his enemy for other charges and then transfer him to their cells for an instant victory, subsidize gold for mercenaries, making a deal with his enemy to white peace for a reward

 

[VoodooEconomist]

I am currently working on a game where I start as a count under the Pope and my challenge to myself is to never go independent. Which means to get a king title I need to get the Pope enough land to form Italia.

It's a lot more difficult in some ways than I expected. Especially because I had to spend decades reforming the laws! Council authority over imprisoning and banishment? No thanks!

Wow, that sounds like a fun run

 

[nicochrish]

I find it funny the same people that are defending this are the same people who were saying that playing as a vassal in 2.4.5 is impossible. Its literally the tables turning and now you guys are saying we are overeacting.

I'm not saying that playing as a vassal in 2.4.5 was (or is) impossible - it wasn't even particularly hard.
I still think that what you're saying has extremely little substance. So absolutism is no longer in the game; big deal. I'd say good riddance.
Medieval rulers never, never had complete control over their vassal's actions.
You'll also be getting more tools to manage your vassals in the next DLC, go read todays Dev diary.

 

[RagingJaws]

You've never been able to intervene directly with vassals, outside of claim pushing or tyrannical jailing. This is nothing new. An experienced player has a wealth of choices when it comes to vassal management that don't involve open warfare, getting another one with the <Secret DLC>.

The best two things Conclave has done is add a significant negative modifier penalty in regards to strong vassals and made child education more interesting. Prior to conclave, it was stupid easy to maintain the entire realm anywhere between +20-+60 upon new succession, barring trouble with an exceptionally weak heir and early succession. Now, it makes more sense for my larger dukes to grumble when they aren't in a position to influence Kingdom policy. Even now, it's still a hell of a lot easier than Deus Vult in regards to managing your feudal sheep.

Getting hung up over realm border gore or agonizing over petty territorial squabbles is beneath the King. Not only are you going to waste an infinite amount of time rearranging vassals before they ruin it again, realm bordergore often leads to intrigue opportunities to use.

 

[Arsonik]

I gave my son some land and one of my vassals fabricated claims against him and I had realm peace on cooldown and his arrest chance was 30% so I was powerless to tell him "Don't do that"

You can still attempt to arrest him. Then when you fail he goes into open revolt against the top liege and you actually gain some prestige and opinion modifiers for crushing a revolt after beating him down. But that might take a little more effort. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Arcvalons]

If anything, the game favours top lieges way too much. Conclave was a step in the right direction.

 

[Woifee]

But if that would be possible you should also ve able to join thr enemy of your liege

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

I haven't been CK2ing in a while. Crown Authority is gone? What?

 

[SaphireSeas]

I haven't been CK2ing in a while. Crown Authority is gone? What?

Only if you have the Conclave DLC activated.

 

[Rubidium]

I haven't been CK2ing in a while. Crown Authority is gone? What?

Conclave replaces it with a series of different laws that can be enacted individually (e.g. title revocation or no titles passing outside the realm), none of which include permanent internal peace. There is an option to declare "Realm Peace" for a time (a few months after pushing the button, all internal wars cease for 5 years); it has a 5 year cooldown after it expires.

Without the DLC, it's still the same as the old system.

 

[Keizer Harm]

Owners of <Secret DLC> may ask their vassals individually to end their wars with each other, or force them to do so with a favor. When favors are not used, the vassal may accept or refuse or may accept in exchange for cash or gaining a favor from you. If the aggressor is asked to and agrees to end their war they are also barred from declaring new wars on your other vassals for a time.

Well, here you go mate!