So far - imo HOI3 is a superior game to HOI4

[rjohansen]

HOI4 is a good game, but in my opinion HOI3 i superior. Haven't played the game to finish yet. I have tried one game as Germany and one as Norway to check stuff out. As I feared, the game has little to nothing to do with history so far (hope some expansions will fix some of the issues) - it is just more of a fantasy game.

1. Lack of an OOB - many have said it before, so have I - you just get no feeling of WW2 with this new system - just random units/armies (even if it is 2 divisions, the game insists on callit it "Army X") - HOI3 far superior as it gave immersion and you "felt" it was about WW2
2. Really bad to see what terrain it is - and the political map disappears when zooming a bit in. HOI3 FAR superior with the different map modes.
3. AI bizarre - AI seems to do odd things, and I chose historical settings, but still... Nationalist Spain joining Axis on day one, steamrolling across Africa. Also, the spanish civil war ended in a few months. But in real life, I find it very unlikely that Spain would join the war (at least not early) as it was trying to regain it self from the devastating civil war. HOI3 was not perfect, but way way better.
4. Love the divisional templates and all: however, ALL divisions are now the same... There are no "feelings" towards any of them. No individual divisions anymore, just a big bad pool of similar units. HOI3 FAR superior in this regard. I actually was "nurtering" some of my divisions.
   1. I thought I had the solution, I duplicated one template, but the template could not have the same name as an existing one...
5. Naming is a mess, it was in HOI3 also however, but there I could play with the text file to ensure there was no 1. Infanterie-Divison AND 1. Sicherungs-Division at the same time. So, as much as I love the new divisional template, when it comes to naming units, HOI3 solution was far superior. Allthough not perfect.
6. Statistics? Maybe I can't find it, but in HOI3 at least there was SOME statistics on number of tons sunked, IC damages etc. In HOI4 I can't figure it out, if it even exist.
7. Random faces / generic faces: Come on! It would be better with a blank face than having the same two faces for my four generals (Playing Norway) I have four generals, but only two different faces... A blank image would be way better. HOI3 superior in that it actually had images for more generals
   1. Allthough I love the style of the portraits here (paintings) and all. It just doesn't do when the generic ones pop up...
8. Norway: When Germany attacks Norway (and Denmark just before), they sent 1 division on invasion... And then retreated that division before any combat was seen. Two months have now gone by since they declared war and no more units have arrived. Except.... Denmark have sent a division to Norway, even though they are fighting Germany at home. UK have sent 7 divisions... And US sent me a voulunteer divisions... Also, Germany captured Benelux and France ok, also Poland, but are struggling with DENMARK!
   1. I notice UK have landet 6 (yeah) divisions on Bornholm
   2. Denmark has lost all of Jylland, but are winning the battle in Odense
   3. South Africa has landed a division in Copenhagen
   4. And why did Denmark send one of their division to Norway all of a sudden - they are fighting the Germans at home, would make more sense to have it there.
9. Volunteers is another issue. I don't know what it is supposed to be. But had to restart as Germany because the Spanish civil war was to easy if I sent volunteers there, didn't help though. Next time the National Spain also won in a few months. What are these volunteers supposed to be? What about exp. forces? Does these still exist? Either make volunteers ACTUAL volunteers (manpower and/or regiment size only in my opinion) or get rid of it.
10. The new counters - HOI3 far superior - the new ones doesn't resemble any war game ever, and also are way to small when zoomed in. One thing they have going for them is the way they "combine" when zooming out though.

Some critisism there, but all is not bad... I love the UI in fact - the menu and buttons and general 2D art of the game. I did not at first when seeing screenshots, but they have grown on me.

I will try to finish Barbarossa first, but so far, the game seem to easy and strange, I just don't find any immersion or WW2 feel about it, plus the fact that is so far from history everything that happens. But, I will finish the game 3 times, once as Germany, once as a minor and once as an allied. Then I will choose if I even bother playing this anymore (at least until an expansion comes along), because so far, my impression is that HOI3 is a better game.

 

[Sgt_Pepper966]

Sad, that we have to wait another 3 or 2 months and PAY to make the game actually good. Paradox has gone to the toilet.

 

[rjohansen]

Also, as I continue to play (at max speed, as it doesn't seem to matter) - Denmark is still holding on, four months or so now. UK still sits with 6 divisions, including an armor one in Bornholm. Still no sign of the Germans, they have at least got the advantage of Denmark and have captured Odense.

1. Why is there no more messages?
2. Why is the war still called Polish-German war? I just noticed when Bulgaria joined the Axis. Japan is making a claim on Norway too...

 

[Anichent]

Sad, that we have to wait another 3 or 2 months and PAY to make the game actually good. Paradox has gone to the toilet.

There's these things called updates. You don't have to pay for those.


Now for OP,
Also anyone who thinks this game is not better than HOI3 either
a) have the wrong idea of what HOI, and PDX are.
b) want it to be more scripted, which is something the Devs and fans did not want


In my opinion
- the map in HOI4 is 1million times better, LOVE it. Its also more accurate than HOI3.
- AI seems odd, sure. It is less scripted and more free than HOI4. Is it perfect? No. Will they keep working on it? Yes. Is it better and more fun that HOI3, 9 times out of 10, yes.
- You are just not using the division template right....you can make multiple infantry divisions, assign some artillery, some motorized, some anti-air. Its the same as HOI3, perhaps you need more time to get used to it.
- I agree with the portraits complaint. Too many generic portraits is a massive weakness of HOI4, but I KNOW they will be making more. This is maybe the 1 place we agree....but thats not enough to say HOI3 is better lol
- I agree, Germany seems to have too much trouble with Denmark is every game. Not sure why....that is a problem, but that doesn't make HOI3 better, it makes it something the devs need to fix.
- For Spain, I keep seeing half of people whine that the Nationalists win too much and half the people whine the Republicans win too much. Wtf. What do you people want?

People need to stop whining. We are LUCKY PDX puts so much effort into appeasing its fans and getting our ideas, and that they made it easy to mod so that the 100 different ideas 100 different players have, can all be done....on their own.

PDX will keep improving this game, and I'd rather pay for a new expansion of this or DLC then buy any other strategy game. 90% of my video game spending goes to PDX, and its because they deserve it.

 

[Lparsons7641]

HOI 3 is mature. And I still don't find it better.

I load up as the USSR and sigh thinking of that OOB

 

[Art1985]

I really don't like magical national focuses.... and magical research slots. I hope that will be changed in future.

 

[Lonfield]

@Anichent plz, don't say the fans. I'm fan of HoI and i think exactly the same as the OP so plz, don't speak for me.

 

[Anichent]

@Anichent plz, don't say the fans. I'm fan of HoI and i think exactly the same as the OP so plz, don't speak for me.

Oh please, most people did not want strict scripting. The people who complain just tend to be louder.

Most people do not want to just relive WW2. If you expected scripting then you did not follow from the announcement to release because it was NEVER intended and no one complained.

 

[Sgt_Pepper966]

There's these things called updates. You don't have to pay for those.

Great, so now I just have to wait an entire year for the game the be playable. You completely changed my mind /sarcasm. The game has been in development for two years and people payed for it, more than it was worth imo. It should be in a complete playable state when released not be a half baked garbage product. People who say it's playable or good are just content with subpar content and willing to blindly waste their money. They are paradox's audience now, sad but true.

 

[D3m0]

1. If you're just making random commands and don't rename that's what you get. I set up separate commands as armies and specialized groups as corps and group them by geographic theatre for example.

3. You're basing the AI acting strange on one event here, AI Nat. Spain joining the Axis could happen in HoI3 too and because it happened in your game that doesn't have to be the norm.

4. You realize you can make new templates and change existing ones? It's a similar system to HoI3 just more detailed as instead of brigades you pick battalions and companies, so really don't see what you're on about here.

5. Don't see why you want different types of divisions be considered the same for naming.

6. Bombing is in the statistics window of airzones, there are more statistics in the logistics tab but sunk tonnage is indeed missing as are some other things I would like to see (which HoI3 doesn't show either though).

 

[Art1985]

HOI 3 is mature. And I still don't find it better.

I load up as the USSR and sigh thinking of that OOB

I don't like OOB from hoi3, or assigning generals, but in other ways hoi3 was more logical game. And for me its strange to see how devs came to only 3d graphics after all the hoi3 problems that were there at start, when devs returned terrain mapmode , and now we getting same problem in hoi3 but in larger scale , because of 3d graphics all over the place. But 2d graphics fitting more to this type of games, it's just important to have more schematic interface.

 

[kosmoface]

Honestly ... I am nearly ashamed so much do I like HOI IV.

But I always take games at their face value. I don't play Civ 5 and lament the fact that it is not CiV 4. What purpose would that follow?

Take for example the new Master of Orion. I've seen quill18 play it and that looked like fun. I bought it and boy, was that a mistake. To me it is so boring, complete waste of money. But I can't hate it. It is just not the game for me. I think it succeeds in being what it was set out to be.

HOI IV never wanted to bei HOI 3.5. It was and is its own thing. Maybe it is just like NuMoO for me - HOI IV is not for you. Things happen.

 

[RandumDude]

Man, I don't even know why you complain here.
What will happen is you'll get a lot of "Respectfully Disagree"s and "BUT 3 YEARS OF DLCs WILL FIX IT", "JUST MOD IT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT" and then the usual "you should be honored that Paradox descended form Heaven and gifted humanity this incredible game that has no flaws. I find your complaints silly and thus invalid. Go play something else if you don't like it".
There's also the fact that most of the people that like HoI 4 love the downright castration or removal of 90% of the mechanics of HoI3 because it makes the game less complicated.

 

[Art1985]

Oh please, most people did not want strict scripting. The people who complain just tend to be louder.

Most people do not want to just relive WW2. If you expected scripting then you did not follow from the announcement to release because it was NEVER intended and no one complained.

I think no one asking for super scripted game, but there should be some logic behind AIs decisions.

And in hoi3 i liked how war was starting more slowly, now i can see that it's becoming world war too fast where everyone joining wars with joy and pleasure. I see Japan losing war in China, but it wants to join war against soviet union (i played as Germany) and i think it's really strange and not logical.

 

[conanbarbairan]

What i liked about HOI3 it looked like a more serious, military-style, WWII game. HOI4 looks/feels like something more childish, 'casual', not WWII... like a mixture of EU/Vic (gameplay) and CivV (artstyle)

slightly reminds me of this game, there is a lot of stuff there and still it's empty:

 

[Laveure]

The thing I hate the most is why is it still called the "Polish-German War" even after war has been declared with France and the United Kingdom? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Captain Frye]

There's these things called updates. You don't have to pay for those.


Now for OP,
Also anyone who thinks this game is not better than HOI3 either
a) have the wrong idea of what HOI, and PDX are.
b) want it to be more scripted, which is something the Devs and fans did not want


In my opinion
- the map in HOI4 is 1million times better, LOVE it. Its also more accurate than HOI3.
- AI seems odd, sure. It is less scripted and more free than HOI4. Is it perfect? No. Will they keep working on it? Yes. Is it better and more fun that HOI3, 9 times out of 10, yes.
- You are just not using the division template right....you can make multiple infantry divisions, assign some artillery, some motorized, some anti-air. Its the same as HOI3, perhaps you need more time to get used to it.
- I agree with the portraits complaint. Too many generic portraits is a massive weakness of HOI4, but I KNOW they will be making more. This is maybe the 1 place we agree....but thats not enough to say HOI3 is better lol
- I agree, Germany seems to have too much trouble with Denmark is every game. Not sure why....that is a problem, but that doesn't make HOI3 better, it makes it something the devs need to fix.
- For Spain, I keep seeing half of people whine that the Nationalists win too much and half the people whine the Republicans win too much. Wtf. What do you people want?

People need to stop whining. We are LUCKY PDX puts so much effort into appeasing its fans and getting our ideas, and that they made it easy to mod so that the 100 different ideas 100 different players have, can all be done....on their own.

PDX will keep improving this game, and I'd rather pay for a new expansion of this or DLC then buy any other strategy game. 90% of my video game spending goes to PDX, and its because they deserve it.

Things like Germany not able to invade Denmark must have been fixed during beta stage. There can only be two explanations: Pdx knew about the problem and didn't care. Or they just didn't test the game. Either way it doesn't make a good impression.

 

[Walltar]

It really depends... It might have been better if you got into it, but getting into it was a problem for many players. I personally found it too convoluted in many areas... and as I played it more I found myself giving more and more things to AI, just so I do not have to deal with them. And then it procured to me that I am not playing the game any more, I was managing one important theatre and the rest of the game played itself.

So I stopped playing it and went back to EU4 and CK2.

Right now, HOI 4 feels much better than HOI 3 ever did for me... My biggest gripe is that veteran is not hard enough. Yeah, I get problems in the early game keeping my units supplied (When I get to 200 mil factories, then it is not a problem any more), but it seems that supply is not important enough. I just steamroll over enemy even if my soldiers have to fight with their bare hands. I tried to play Communist France and I kinda went from Germany, to Poland, to Russia, to China in one go... AI Doing stupid mistakes made it all possible. I declared war on germany, and Germany still declared on Poland and went away from their forts, then Russia declared on Turkey (while they were very slowly pushing me... so they had no units to spare) and handed me their country.

AI also needs to get a lot more aggressive... I have seen some good landings in unprotected territories, but still, unless you are really small minor then you got lots of time to go back before they get anywhere dangerous.

There just need to be hard option that also modifies AI behaviour... Because right now, even if I make some stupid mistake game does not punish me.

Game definitely needs a lot of improvements and quality of life changes... like all paradox games I played on release... but right now, it feels better than HOI 3 for me. And that was probably what Paradox wanted... to make a game that would be playable for broader audience, while still being good for most of their fans.

 

[rjohansen]

There's these things called updates. You don't have to pay for those.

- AI seems odd, sure. It is less scripted and more free than HOI4. Is it perfect? No. Will they keep working on it? Yes. Is it better and more fun that HOI3, 9 times out of 10, yes.
- You are just not using the division template right....you can make multiple infantry divisions, assign some artillery, some motorized, some anti-air. Its the same as HOI3, perhaps you need more time to get used to it.
- I agree with the portraits complaint. Too many generic portraits is a massive weakness of HOI4, but I KNOW they will be making more. This is maybe the 1 place we agree....but thats not enough to say HOI3 is better lol

MAP: I just can't figure out WHY some people think this map is better, is it because it's more cute and pretty? Don't get it. With simplified terrain it was easy to see what terrain it was in HOI3 - in HOI4 (for me) it is a nightmare. There is often no way to see if it is hill/montain/plain/desert etc.Especially provinces close to the other.

DIVISIONAL TEMPLATE: I have no problem with making them, using them or altering them, however, if I want different templates for an Infantry-Division, the divisions need to have a different name, or I need to manually edit them all. Actually the divisional template system is one thing I do like about HOI4 - but it has it's faults, and this is one. You can no longer have unique divisions (unless you make a template just for THAT division)

ALL Infantry divisions should not necessary be the EXACT same composition, but in HOI4 is has to be. Unless you rename that division to something else.

PORTRAITS: I love the new portraits, don't get me wrong. However, as it is so few, it would be better with just pictures as in HOI3.

Denmark finally capitulated shortly after my latest post though, but still holding out a bit too long. Germany has not yet invaded Norway, UK has moved it's troops, still one danish infantry division here.

• Venezuela has sent volunteers to Germany, I noticed they fought in Copenhagen. Come on! Venezuela!
• UK has however made a huge landing in Italy, as has Australia in another place. Seems the Italians hasn't bother securing it's mainland. They have massive amounts of troops in Africa, wonder if they will move some of them home again.

 

[rjohansen]

1. If you're just making random commands and don't rename that's what you get. I set up separate commands as armies and specialized groups as corps and group them by geographic theatre for example.

I used to do that in HOI3, with Corps/Armies and so on. Where a formation WAS a formation. Here it is just a random "group" - I really don't care what it is called here, as you don't get attached to it the same way (in my opinion) - But great ideas. You could make a Theatre an Army and have "Corps" inside of it. However, what if you wan't to give orders to the entire army (or in this case the theatre)?

3. You're basing the AI acting strange on one event here, AI Nat. Spain joining the Axis could happen in HoI3 too and because it happened in your game that doesn't have to be the norm.

I actually don't think I saw the Nat. Spain joining Axis once in HOI3, unless I played as the axis and invited them in. But then I didn't invite them to war, I just did so to keep the tungsten resource.

4. You realize you can make new templates and change existing ones? It's a similar system to HoI3 just more detailed as instead of brigades you pick battalions and companies, so really don't see what you're on about here.

I know. The system is ok. However, what if ONE Infantry-Division needs to be a bit different - or I don't wan't to upgrade it to the "new" template? I then have to make a new and seperate template for THAT division alone. I love the system of support companies etc. But not all divisions (of same type) needs to be the exact same... Perhaps I wan't to update just 4 divisions on the new template, the rest I wan't to keep as they where.

5. Don't see why you want different types of divisions be considered the same for naming.

Depending on nation. In Germany as I see you play here. There can't exist both an 1. Infanterie-Division AND a 1. Infanterie-Division (mot) etc. They are the same division IRL. But the game doesn't quite understand that. Was not perfect in HOI3 either, but you could work around it by using the nation text file and make sure there wouldent exist two of the same divisions (but different "template" for instance)

Like if a divisions starts out as an Infanterie-Division, then gets upgraded to a Infanterie-Divisions (mot) and then again to a Panzergrenadier-Division - however, maybe you are out of equipment and wan't to downgrade it to an Infanterie-Division again or even a Sicherungs-Division - this is the same division all the time, according to its number. The name however changes.

Same with 'Nicknames' I noticed Italy has several units with nicknames allready - if using a nickname for one of your divisions 100. Division and then giving it a nickname like 100. Division 'Nickname Here' - the game doesn't understand and will build ANOTHER 100. Division.

6. Bombing is in the statistics window of airzones, there are more statistics in the logistics tab but sunk tonnage is indeed missing as are some other things I would like to see (which HoI3 doesn't show either though).

Sunk tonnage is indeed visible in HOI3. You can see select all enemies or just a few, select previous month, entire conflict etc.