So disappointed :(

[Krafty]

I also tried BlackIce the other day. Sure it makes the game WAY better. But still way inferior to HOI3. It's not just the AI in my opinion either, it fails in many regards (some that might get fixed in expansions hopefully) - although it have some pros compared to HOI3 (production of equipment for the most part) - but the cons are bigger.

• Silly 3d units - if you turn them off, you miss out on a lot of information (like air warfare for instance)
• Air warfare in general... Also just a numbers game. Where are the wings? fleets? famous commanders?
• Lack of OOB - it just feels so incredible stupid right now with these random nonsense groups.
• Map... Why the need to make a 3D looking map? You can't tell montains, hills or desert apart in some places. Or other terrain. Need a simple terrain mode and need a political map mode and need a flat world.
• Templates - both good and bad - bad that you really don't hazzle with making unique divisions - as you need a lot of templates. Good, that it makes it easier. Should be able to have both. Either AS a template or as a unique setup. Ability to transfer batallions between divisions etc.
• History is out the window. No real care has been put to history i feel, it's more a funky what-if (although totally un-plausible) world

Most importantly it doesn't feel like WW2 at all. Not even remotely. Sure, the date can be 1940... But you don't get the feeling that this is WW2 or that it is the world in 1940. That is my main concern.

@podcat

I think its time we admit that the lack of a OOB, mini-map, and simplified terrain map mode, as well as the "sand box" nature you wanted to cultivate...was a bad choice.

Not a single day goes by that you dont get one of these posts with an overwelming majority of agreement. Its been 3 straight months since release, and its been 8 months straight of people saying this on forum before release.

Please. Please. Admit you picked a bad direction for this game, and its not what the fans wanted. Its not an even split, or within the margin of error, its a majority of your customer base. This isnt the game we wanted. There isnt some large group of players who are shouting "No, I really like that Greece conquers Berlin!!". Thats not the game we wanted.

Its a great game. Dont get me wrong, and itll get better, but this isnt what the fans of the series really wanted. I think you guys need to accept this, and shift your development plans in the future, towards an understanding of this.

The AI needs the most work, first and foremost (probably over the next few patches infact) and then we need (I hate to suggest we PAY for things that should already exist in the game) a DLC that focuses on bringing us up to snuff with HOI3. Not focused on the air, or sea, or politics, but a broad DLC that gets us to a functioning and enjoyable level, so that this game can provide a base for DLCs as good as For the Motherland or Their Finest Hour.

Thank you for your hard work, and I hope this ship can be bailed before it sinks.

 

[Praetori]

Hoi3 was a god awful mess, it was 'complex' for the sake of being complex and in the end left it feeling more shallow then hoi4 is now.

HOI3 had good depth on the operational warfare. Mechanics like logistics were extremely complex or rather they were extremely complex to monitor and make sense of (as in speed 1 and manual mouse_over a dozen or more provinces to decipher for a single Army).
But yes HOI4 has a lot more going for it than HOI3 had with the same number of days after release.

The oob from hoi3 was cluny, annoying, unfun and tedus. I'm glad it's gone along with those stupid counters. (Really don't know why people love these so much, never played with them even in hoi2.)

The HOI3 OOB was clunky and tedious yes but not having a OOB at all was a mistake IMO. Just because the HOI3 variant was bad does't mean that all OOBs are bad per se.
Regarding counters it's like numbers. Comparing counters to models is like comparing a economy-system with numbers vs one with animated heaps of coins (the latter might be prettier but it leaves a lot of information out). The problem with most war-games is that counters aren't utilized in the way they should and then they're basically just placeholders for more fancy graphics. That said you can view a myriad of counters in a single map image and still get a decent overview of what's going on while the same number of animated models will just look like a chaotic anthill (you'll need to zoom down to the individual ant to get an idea of who he is and what he's up to which is just clunky). All personal opinions of course.

 

[safe-keeper]

@podcat

I think its time we admit that the lack of a OOB, mini-map, and simplified terrain map mode, as well as the "sand box" nature you wanted to cultivate...was a bad choice.

Not a single day goes by that you dont get one of these posts with an overwelming majority of agreement. Its been 3 straight months since release, and its been 8 months straight of people saying this on forum before release.

Please. Please. Admit you picked a bad direction for this game, and its not what the fans wanted. Its not an even split, or within the margin of error, its a majority of your customer base. This isnt the game we wanted. There isnt some large group of players who are shouting "No, I really like that Greece conquers Berlin!!". Thats not the game we wanted.

Don't you think the forum was flooded by similar posts when they released HOI3 ?

 

[DeclaredYuppie]

January 20th, 2015 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the business practices of a single video game company, but let me explain what all of this means to me.

My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Paradox Interactive was a company I respected, and their employees were people I looked up to. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron were all quality game series that combined historical accuracy with sandbox game worlds. These games may have been cartoony and humorous at times, but deep down they were always realistic and crafted with a level of detail and skill that won appreciation from gamers all across the internet. EUIV was their newest release, and the internet was in unanimous agreement that it was of unparallelled quality. Following it's long awaited release, Paradox began releasing quality DLC that raised the bar ever higher for Grand Strategy Games.

Then El Dorado was announced. This was not just an announcement of DLC, it was announcement of Paradox Interactive's suicide. It was an expansion intended to completely disregard any historical accuracy, and instead shock the entire world with its lunacy. Paradox Interactive had gone off the deep end and raised the middle finger to everybody who stayed loyal to them. They had announced that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't care for their community, and they were going to go out of their way to sabotage everything they had spent years creating.

The pain I felt from this betrayal has destroyed me on an emotional level, and has deprived me of my primary source of entertainment. No longer can I play Grand Strategy games without remembering the day I ceased mattering to people I devoted myself to. Paradox had not just destroyed me or their company, they had destroyed the one force of stability in the world: Trust.

 

[safe-keeper]

I stopped taking your opinion seriously after reading this. Some of you history nuts that complain about this game drive me up the wall. 'The games ahistoric!' I hear this a lot, this is one of the things i like about the game, some really batshit crazy things can happen and honestly that's more fun then playing the same damn war over and over and over again. So you wanted hoi3.5? Basically the same game but prettier? You know what other game does thia, call of duty. But that's a kids game for the unwased masses? Seriously dude, get off your high horse.

Yeah, I dislike it when really stupid ahistorical stuff happens, but ahistorical stuff in general I surprised myself by actually liking a lot. HOI3 so easily broke down if you went the slightest bit off the railroaded script, whereas in HOI4 you can do things like invade Hungaria and Romania instead of Poland and the AI will still be able to play the game.

 

[KapiKolu]

Im sure you are rolling over everyone as luxemburg in multiplayer since a hardcore player like you is so much better than these masses.

Well if a noob like me , who only plays TW multiplayer which is not complex and just pure decision making , can play this game easily , I think it is for us , I'm that''mass''

 

[happyman40]

January 20th, 2015 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the business practices of a single video game company, but let me explain what all of this means to me.

My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Paradox Interactive was a company I respected, and their employees were people I looked up to. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron were all quality game series that combined historical accuracy with sandbox game worlds. These games may have been cartoony and humorous at times, but deep down they were always realistic and crafted with a level of detail and skill that won appreciation from gamers all across the internet. EUIV was their newest release, and the internet was in unanimous agreement that it was of unparallelled quality. Following it's long awaited release, Paradox began releasing quality DLC that raised the bar ever higher for Grand Strategy Games.

Then El Dorado was announced. This was not just an announcement of DLC, it was announcement of Paradox Interactive's suicide. It was an expansion intended to completely disregard any historical accuracy, and instead shock the entire world with its lunacy. Paradox Interactive had gone off the deep end and raised the middle finger to everybody who stayed loyal to them. They had announced that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't care for their community, and they were going to go out of their way to sabotage everything they had spent years creating.

The pain I felt from this betrayal has destroyed me on an emotional level, and has deprived me of my primary source of entertainment. No longer can I play Grand Strategy games without remembering the day I ceased mattering to people I devoted myself to. Paradox had not just destroyed me or their company, they had destroyed the one force of stability in the world: Trust.

It is unfortunate that you also suffer from intermittent bouts of alzheimer's; pre-ordered the next two Grand strategy game titles from them and you don't remember the hundreds of hours you have been entertained since. Then you wake up and remember the intense pain and suffering El Dorado caused and everything Paradox once again becomes too painful to contemplate.......until the next Alzheimer's episode

 

[rjohansen]

HOI 4 is more sandbox game than historical simulation.
It's designed for masses, not hard core (history, strategy) players

Agree it seems so. But, yet the game is marketed and branded as a WW2 game. Main features like, Authentic real-time war simulation: Let the greatest commanders of WW2 fight your war with the tools of the time, may fool someone.

In my opinion, they should have used HOI3 and worked from there, instead of scrapping all and starting from start again.

 

[NJSFC]

I really dont get what your talking about. Expecting to trade lots of ressources when at war and not losing convoys is naive. Build some convoys or dont trade overseas.

Im talking about playing multiplayer as japan , trading with the soviet union and the AI chose my / soviet trade routes to go over the mediterrain sea , as you know the soviet have a port
at 'vladivostok' near japan.

So why the AI chose the trade route to pass near our enemies while is one route more safe and shorter available ?

At the same time france and britain can safe trade by the shortest route and we cant harm them.

So my point is , if the AI cant make fair decisions in trade routes why cant the player chose


NOTE: the russian player developed the port at 'vladivostok' to level 10.

 

[Slickepinnen]

January 20th, 2015 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the business practices of a single video game company, but let me explain what all of this means to me.

My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Paradox Interactive was a company I respected, and their employees were people I looked up to. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron were all quality game series that combined historical accuracy with sandbox game worlds. These games may have been cartoony and humorous at times, but deep down they were always realistic and crafted with a level of detail and skill that won appreciation from gamers all across the internet. EUIV was their newest release, and the internet was in unanimous agreement that it was of unparallelled quality. Following it's long awaited release, Paradox began releasing quality DLC that raised the bar ever higher for Grand Strategy Games.

Then El Dorado was announced. This was not just an announcement of DLC, it was announcement of Paradox Interactive's suicide. It was an expansion intended to completely disregard any historical accuracy, and instead shock the entire world with its lunacy. Paradox Interactive had gone off the deep end and raised the middle finger to everybody who stayed loyal to them. They had announced that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't care for their community, and they were going to go out of their way to sabotage everything they had spent years creating.

The pain I felt from this betrayal has destroyed me on an emotional level, and has deprived me of my primary source of entertainment. No longer can I play Grand Strategy games without remembering the day I ceased mattering to people I devoted myself to. Paradox had not just destroyed me or their company, they had destroyed the one force of stability in the world: Trust.

I'm sorry to ridicule you but this comment could be the dictionary definition of overreaction. Your trust in humanity was entirely and solely extinguished by the release of an expansion pack for a video-game? You do understand that Paradox didn't develop "El Dorado" just to personally spite you? They made the new content in hopes that it would make the game more rich and enjoyable, something I and many others would agree they succeeded with. Disagreement does not equate betrayal. I must apologize again for I truly don't perceive the seriousness of this situation. If you find the design-decision the developing team makes so incomprehensibly horrendous as this there is nothing hindering you from abstaining from purchasing their DLC's and expansions and rolling back the game to any earlier version you desire. I also disagree on your assessment that Paradox Studios have stopped listening to their fan-base. Unless my memory fails me, the Nation Designer was originally a suggestion from the community members.

I never thought I'd sink so low as to tell someone on the internet this; if a game(EU4) plays such an extensive roll in your existence that your perception of the human race depends on it... dude, expand your life.

P.s. If this comment was written with the intent of satire I was completely deceived by it. If that was the case I applaud the author for an masterfull display of internet trolling D.s.

 

[WhiteSlift]

Someone here is a drama queen.

@podcatI think its time we admit that the lack of a OOB, mini-map, and simplified terrain map mode, as well as the "sand box" nature you wanted to cultivate...was a bad choice.

How is the terrain mode simplified?

 

[Sinbuster]

...The HOI3 OOB was clunky and tedious yes but not having a OOB at all was a mistake IMO. Just because the HOI3 variant was bad does't mean that all OOBs are bad per se...

This is an important point. I can understand the mixed feelings on the HOI3 OOB system, people had legitimate grievances. What I can't understand is Paradox just doing away with it completely. I was convinced they would make OOBs both more streamlined and more enjoyable for the new player base. I had assumed, quite wrongly, that the generals would be a central part of the game, providing an immersive element that was missing in past iterations. In my mind I imagined a simple OOB tree where you can pick the chain of command, drag and drop generals and not have to worry about clunky HQ sprites. The character traits of your generals would be unique and random, but could also influence the way orders are followed - cautious generals advancing slowly, risk-takers, like Rommel, pushing forward. Stubborn generals might refuse to follow orders, lily-livered ones might run for the hills at the first sign of trouble. Instead, generals are basically place holders for a random mish-mash of troops with no adherence to any kind of military chain of command. Big oversight in my mind.

I think my biggest gripe with Paradox games is how they always have to reinvent the wheel with each new iteration. Every HOI starts off the same: no Pacific War, bad invasion AI, an AI incapable of a two-front war, uber-stacks, and on and on and on. Sometimes I think I'm in a bad episode of twilight zone; I can't tell whether I'm reading the HOI4 forum or the HOI2 one.

 

[Jamey]

I really like HOI4. Many of the design decisions that are being complain about in this thread are what I consider the best parts of HOI4.

1. Removal of the OOB. I cannot bring myself to play HOI3 again because I can't bring myself to deal with the hours of tedium involved in redoing the OOB. Also, the ranges for command were so short that it completely sucked anywhere outside of Europe and you wound up with just a Theatre and divisions. Also, the AI made a complete hash of using the OOB.
2. Air combat is improved. I'd like more visibility of what is going on and more options to manage it, but having large air regions that manage themselves is a better gameplay.
3. Fleet management. You assign fleets areas of operation and missions. Your admirals deal with the details. Again, I'd like better visibility of what is going on and more options for managing it, but it is a better implementation than HOI3, which involved a lot more micro.
4. The Battle Planner. It is awesome to offload 90% of the front to the AI and micromanage the important units (e.g. Tanks and special forces).
5. Removal of the complex supply flow system. It took many hours of play and more hours of reading guides before I understood supplies in HOI3. It was incredibly frustrating to approach as a new player (HOI3 was my second Paradox game after EU:Rome). I understand it now, but the HOI3 supply system almost convinced me to stop playing HOI3 and never buy a Paradox game again.

Quite simply, HOI4 has better gameplay across the board. Much of its mechanics are far more apparent to the user.

Does it have problems? Yes. The biggest is the AI, which will take time to improve because AI for a game as big and complex as HOI4 is a hard problem. Perhaps the second biggest is the World Tension system, which is a great idea that seems to be behaving oddly at times. Other major problems include the opaque nature of air and naval combat.

All of that said about flaws, I'm planning on starting a new game of HOI4 this week. The odds of me doing the same with HOI3 are somewhere between slim and none.

 

[Gamer_1745]

@zopok & others,

Time, it takes time to develop a historical game with good immersion. The farther back in history it is easier as people know less about it? Do they care about the musket model names in EU IV? does any player even know them? No, the players don't so just having matchlock & flintlock muskets is enough. (To showoff a bit I know a bunch about 18th century muskets from my reenacting days) Now having weapons level 1, 2 & 3 just does not add to immersion for a WW II game. Many players know of the Enfield, Mauser, M1 Garand & other rifles. Since HOI IV is a fresh start in the HoI series much of the work on the older series does not help too much.

For the time being you will need to look to modders, not the ones that quickly a mod a few day after the game was released, but the ones that take time to develop the mod to make the game more historical. Now things like the AI & structural elements to the game will have to come from Paradox. I have great confidence that Paradox will improve (I almost said fix) the AI. What I have less confidence in is that they will see the need to make the changes many (most?) of the core audience for HoI thinks they should. I don't think most of this core group play at speed 3 with no pauses.

 

[Gamer_1745]

How is the terrain mode simplified?

Just the simplified view of the terrain mod is what he wants.

 

[bERt0r]

If you want historical equipment names there is an ironman compatible mod out already.
There are also ironman comp. Terrain mods. And you can turn down graphics.

 

[Krafty]

Don't you think the forum was flooded by similar posts when they released HOI3 ?

And such posts helped shape the future expansions.

 

[Gamer_1745]

And such posts helped shape the future expansions.

And I hope this & other threads are shaping the future of HOI IV in the direction many of us here want.

 

[Supercooldragn]

It is distressing to meet on a forum some people who do not support a controversial discussion

Now I took position on aligning myself to Paradox that presents itself as a Development Company with the principle of having for his products a historical content rigorous as possible. That is, if I may say so, its brand of sales.

Therefore, it is entirely legitimate thinking to be deceived on the product.

Paradox as far as i have understood it has always put gameplay before rigorous historical accuracy. Where did you get this idea?

 

[Nuklearius]

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