So can Ming form any nation or not?

[Ryci]

Hi.

I hear now and then about some mysterious "China" decision, but i can't find anything like it on EU4 wiki. If not, why? When i see something like Kurland, i'm confused.

 

[qijiang_ok]

This decision has been removed. In the past, this decision could change government, remove factions and remove inward perfection debuff. Since this effect can also be achieved by westernization, this decision was a little useless.

 

[Ryci]

So now Ming loses +50% manpower and it's meant to suck late game in multiplayer(hi, russians)? I have no idea why. Another Kurland in europe, please, Paradox, please!

 

[balmung60]

So now Ming loses +50% manpower and it's meant to suck late game in multiplayer(hi, russians)? I have no idea why. Another Kurland in europe, please, Paradox, please!

Huh? So what that it doesn't have +50% manpower? Once you westernize, you're pretty much immediately a major player because Ming is huge and has enormous manpower to draw from once Inward Perfection is gone. Also, in exchange for that manpower, your discipline bonus is doubled and you get +1 leader fire, so it's not as gloom and doom as you're making it out to be.

 

[kitemasaki]

That +50% manpower modifier being replaced by +1 fire is a good trade off. You don't need that much manpower as Ming late game. That fire pip is hard to come by and synchs well with Chinese infantry late game.

 

[balmung60]

That +50% manpower modifier being replaced by +1 fire is a good trade off. You don't need that much manpower as Ming late game. That fire pip is hard to come by and synchs well with Chinese infantry late game.

Though +1 shock wouldn't be bad, either, since Chinese has demigod-tier endgame cavalry (19 pips, five of which are offensive shock, making it probably the best non-western endgame cavalry (eastern has more pips, but suffers a regression to 4 shock pips).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Leader fire is rare and mid-late when arty multipliers take off is the strongest general stat. Along with 5% discipline a Ming that grabs offensive and runs absolute monarchy is going to be a giant nation with an easy 115% discipline and near max fire pips constantly. I don't see how this is a bad NI set at all. It's not Ottomans or something but it's strong and has good stuff early.

 

[balmung60]

And again, most of the deficiencies in the idea group can be counterbalanced by the fact that Ming is a 450+ base tax monster held in check almost entirely by the crippling Inward Perfection, and will still come out more valuable than any major that can't more than double in size before Ming westernizes.