I am not saying ZOC is not an issue, I found the same problems but just learned to work around it for now until they (hopefully) fix it
So buggy ZoC is main issue of 1.14.. Any others?
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Such issues can be game breakers, but are often localized so that most players are unaffected. Everyone is affected by basic mechanics like ZoC.Really, I have one where my game crashes because of an event without a decision button and when the event finally disappears after several months, its game over... slightly worse than your ZOC issues
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Some possible problems (would be greatful if others could chime in if they have seen them in the wild):
1: Can´t use the military focus for subjects button sometimes (Greyed out - strange).
2: Similarly, in the previous patch, if you set one army as "attach to this army" you could be pretty certain your vassals (if set to supportive) would nicely move to it as if it was a magnet. In this patch it feels like you need a bit of divine intervention to actually make them move and attach (it happens, but feels finicky).
3: Yeah, the ZOC mechanics feel wonky. Anyone ask for them to be changed?
Other than that I´m enjoying the Cossacks show so far.
1: Can´t use the military focus for subjects button sometimes (Greyed out - strange).
2: Similarly, in the previous patch, if you set one army as "attach to this army" you could be pretty certain your vassals (if set to supportive) would nicely move to it as if it was a magnet. In this patch it feels like you need a bit of divine intervention to actually make them move and attach (it happens, but feels finicky).
3: Yeah, the ZOC mechanics feel wonky. Anyone ask for them to be changed?
Other than that I´m enjoying the Cossacks show so far.
Really, I have one where my game crashes because of an event without a decision button and when the event finally disappears after several months, its game over... slightly worse than your ZOC issues
Hmm, yes that is worse. However it is also not something everyone is experiencing, whereas the poor fort design is quite ubiquitous. I still hope you get your crashing resolved though, that way you can "enjoy" the new fort abuses ^_^.
So from what I gather, the devs seems to respond that the fort are working properly.
I find this hard to believe, since I've clearly seen enemies run throught me, and ignore my forts entirely. I am hopefull we'll see some sort of an ETA for a patch to make the game playable. That'd be great.
The forts are NOT in fact working properly, and someone should fix them.
I find this hard to believe, since I've clearly seen enemies run throught me, and ignore my forts entirely. I am hopefull we'll see some sort of an ETA for a patch to make the game playable. That'd be great.
The forts are NOT in fact working properly, and someone should fix them.
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Possibly this is under the "many others" category
Tried a QQ game yesterday. Had numerous interface glitches, with elements of the interface disappearing. Had to quit to desktop which fixed it for a bit. Generally I struggled with reform conditions, but that's probably me not understanding horde unity. I do feel that it ticks down a little bit too aggressively at the moment. Once you get a bit bigger you absolutely have to reform ASAP and plan for it way in advance because of huge drops in horde unity. Only way to keep a somewhat biggish horde is to raze every single province you conquer.
But the above is just moaning about game balance.
What I think is actually bugged is rebel spawns. Not sure whether this affects all nations, or just hordes. Tried a Jianzhou -> Manchu game today. Formed Manchu very early conquered Yeren, Haixi, Korchin. All at a decent pace, never getting into much of an overextension issue. But the rebel spawns were just brutal. 20-26k rebels at 0% overextension. And they seem to destroy my cav armies even in the Steppes, where in the past the shock bonus meant I wiped rebel stacks with almost no losses.
I am still trying to figure out why my income is so dire that I struggle to pay for a 16k cav army with Jianzhou+Haixi+Yeren+Korchin lands. I'll have another look tomorrow after work. It's possible that I am getting screwed over by high autonomy from being a horde plus a couple unlucky events. That and going Manchu early possibly wasn't a great idea because you convert from Tengri to Confucian and it tanks your religious unity. Even with low RR from horde unity, Theologian (my only advisor, and only a +1) and +1 stab I still seemed to struggle for cash to an extent that I never did with Manchu pre-Cossacks.
But the rebels do seem broken. As if some value was forgotten. Before Cossacks, only time I saw rebels with similar capability was if I had at least 150% over extension. Maybe there is something I am missing, but having every single revolt spawn a stack the size of my force limit is not sustainable. And I've been expanding at a cautious and laid back rate compared to my usual one.
Tomorrow I'll try a European country to see whether I have massive rebel problems as well.
Tried a QQ game yesterday. Had numerous interface glitches, with elements of the interface disappearing. Had to quit to desktop which fixed it for a bit. Generally I struggled with reform conditions, but that's probably me not understanding horde unity. I do feel that it ticks down a little bit too aggressively at the moment. Once you get a bit bigger you absolutely have to reform ASAP and plan for it way in advance because of huge drops in horde unity. Only way to keep a somewhat biggish horde is to raze every single province you conquer.
But the above is just moaning about game balance.
What I think is actually bugged is rebel spawns. Not sure whether this affects all nations, or just hordes. Tried a Jianzhou -> Manchu game today. Formed Manchu very early conquered Yeren, Haixi, Korchin. All at a decent pace, never getting into much of an overextension issue. But the rebel spawns were just brutal. 20-26k rebels at 0% overextension. And they seem to destroy my cav armies even in the Steppes, where in the past the shock bonus meant I wiped rebel stacks with almost no losses.
I am still trying to figure out why my income is so dire that I struggle to pay for a 16k cav army with Jianzhou+Haixi+Yeren+Korchin lands. I'll have another look tomorrow after work. It's possible that I am getting screwed over by high autonomy from being a horde plus a couple unlucky events. That and going Manchu early possibly wasn't a great idea because you convert from Tengri to Confucian and it tanks your religious unity. Even with low RR from horde unity, Theologian (my only advisor, and only a +1) and +1 stab I still seemed to struggle for cash to an extent that I never did with Manchu pre-Cossacks.
But the rebels do seem broken. As if some value was forgotten. Before Cossacks, only time I saw rebels with similar capability was if I had at least 150% over extension. Maybe there is something I am missing, but having every single revolt spawn a stack the size of my force limit is not sustainable. And I've been expanding at a cautious and laid back rate compared to my usual one.
Tomorrow I'll try a European country to see whether I have massive rebel problems as well.
It was explained in one of the dev-diaries.
Zone of Control Changes (Free Feature)
The fort rework in 1.12 added a much more strategic element to warfare, but with it came some complicated rules and confusion over what exactly forts were and were not allowed to block. To simplify the system and make it more intuitive, we've decided to make the following changes:
- Forts that have been captured by the enemy will now have a Zone of Control and block movement for enemies of controller.
- Forts now have Zone of Control over any country's provinces (but can only flip control back over your own owned provinces) meaning they can block enemy movement through friendly & neutral land. Movement through a country's own provinces cannot be blocked if a fort from that country is protecting those provinces.
- Provinces can now be in the Zone of Control of multiple forts.
- Moving through Zones of Control should now result in fewer unnecessarily long paths.
What this means is that forts should behave more intuitively, and act the same everywhere regardless of whether they are enemy-controlled or whether you have a single neutral province next to your own fort.
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This is an explanation of some of the changes, but it's a far cry from a clear breakdown of the system. Equipped with those bullet points along with the explanations given in earlier dev diaries, you wouldn't be able to figure out when an army can move into a province.
For reference, the original dev diary said this:
There are probably other dev posts that have explained other parts of the system, but they'd be nearly impossible to find.
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the new fort abuses
I find that in the meantime I get around it, just need to be more careful (sucks but that is the way it is for now)
Was France, allied with Castile and had Navarra as vassal and was at war against England and Portugal. Had just beaten a English army and it was shattered and retreated to Rioja in Castile. I had an army with Navarra and we stood in Navarra. Portugal had before that sieged down the fort i had in Bearn so we couldnt move to Rioja and kill the shattered English army...... Castile was not in the war but i hade military access.
the new fort abuses
I find that in the meantime I get around it, just need to be more careful (sucks but that is the way it is for now)
No, I've already lost an ironman game to this trash. There's no consistent way to "get around it". You go to engage an enemy army...go to retreat because you see reinforcements coming...
and derp. You can't exit the way you came in, even if no new forts have been occupied, because the path you used to attack that army is now blocked by a hostile fort, creating an idiot scenario where there are literally only two provinces your army can move.
just came back to the game after about a yr and wtf is this fort zoc stuff. talk about Fing up a real good game with a terrible feature. they better rethink this stinker because its pretty bad. may have sounded good but the way it plays is real lousy.
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So far i cant seem to grasp how it works. Most seems same as usual but...
Few minor issues i cant work out, but will put that down to a lack of playtime with new system. Guessing it was mentioned somewhere that AI forts are supposed to exert ZOC in my territory(but havent seen it work against the AI with my forts).
Major issue is 5 of my armies are free to walk around Lithuania once i have all but 1 southern most for unsieged(near Moldavia) They can move from Poland(mostly sieged) north to Pskov through Lithuania in any given path i choose, but 1 army is suffering from ZOC in nearly every square. It could only follow the same path as my 5 other armies for 3 territories, with the option to turn back the way it came. Every other army walking ahead of it, with it and behind it has no ZOC.
(8 screen shots of second situation)
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Kuebik...westfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall
stack of 8 can only move southwest in a direct line, every other army has free movement north south east or west(send them from Poland area north towards the sieging stack in Pskov.
Confused unknown reasons for ZOC is only affecting the 1 army in the same tiles as free moving armies. Assuming this case is a bug.
Sorry i cant find a way to be clearer explaining it.
-Edit (newer 5 screenshots of graphical bugs added since those 8, ignore those)
Few minor issues i cant work out, but will put that down to a lack of playtime with new system. Guessing it was mentioned somewhere that AI forts are supposed to exert ZOC in my territory(but havent seen it work against the AI with my forts).
Major issue is 5 of my armies are free to walk around Lithuania once i have all but 1 southern most for unsieged(near Moldavia) They can move from Poland(mostly sieged) north to Pskov through Lithuania in any given path i choose, but 1 army is suffering from ZOC in nearly every square. It could only follow the same path as my 5 other armies for 3 territories, with the option to turn back the way it came. Every other army walking ahead of it, with it and behind it has no ZOC.
(8 screen shots of second situation)
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Kuebik...westfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall
stack of 8 can only move southwest in a direct line, every other army has free movement north south east or west(send them from Poland area north towards the sieging stack in Pskov.
Confused unknown reasons for ZOC is only affecting the 1 army in the same tiles as free moving armies. Assuming this case is a bug.
Sorry i cant find a way to be clearer explaining it.
-Edit (newer 5 screenshots of graphical bugs added since those 8, ignore those)
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Can anyone explain this Fort behavior?
Playing as Savoy, I'm allied with Genoa (and my vassal Montferrat) in Genoa's war against Firenze (they have no allies in the war). Firenze has a fully-maintained castle in Firenze, their capital, for a level 3 fort. This is their only fort. I'm able to move my army in Novara to Arezzo passing through Firenze, despite the fort. This doesn't match my understanding of how forts are supposed to work. I would think that Firenze's fort would prevent me from continuing on to Arezzo after I enter it from Lucca. I'm also able to move from Lucca to Pisa, which I'm also surprised by.
Playing as Savoy, I'm allied with Genoa (and my vassal Montferrat) in Genoa's war against Firenze (they have no allies in the war). Firenze has a fully-maintained castle in Firenze, their capital, for a level 3 fort. This is their only fort. I'm able to move my army in Novara to Arezzo passing through Firenze, despite the fort. This doesn't match my understanding of how forts are supposed to work. I would think that Firenze's fort would prevent me from continuing on to Arezzo after I enter it from Lucca. I'm also able to move from Lucca to Pisa, which I'm also surprised by.
Can anyone explain this Fort behavior?
Playing as Savoy, I'm allied with Genoa (and my vassal Montferrat) in Genoa's war against Firenze (they have no allies in the war). Firenze has a fully-maintained castle in Firenze, their capital, for a level 3 fort. This is their only fort. I'm able to move my army in Novara to Arezzo passing through Firenze, despite the fort. This doesn't match my understanding of how forts are supposed to work. I would think that Firenze's fort would prevent me from continuing on to Arezzo after I enter it from Lucca. I'm also able to move from Lucca to Pisa, which I'm also surprised by.
It's WAD, in that picture you should be able to move to Romagna and Siena as well, but not Urbino, Roma, Umbria.
What's the rule behind that? Is it that I can move freely within a fort's zone of control once I'm in it?
Exactly, you can move within a fort's ZOC, but can only exit from where you came in. The problem occurs if you are in a Fort's ZOC when you get declared on, then you are trapped until you can siege down the fort(s). Getting declared by half a dozen minors in the HRE when you are in the middle of a war can be extremely frustrating for this very reason.
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Sometimes ZoC works fine for me other times it's like a fort isn't even there. If I start off as Najd and declare was on Hedjaz, should I be able to walk to every province without taking his fort down first? Because I was able to with no MA from anyone, and my guys just pathed right through the fort.
Also
1 - Idk if it's like this for other nations but if you pause it and try to hover over the horde power at the top, the pause icon is blocking the tooltips.
2 - As Oman I conquered a bit and the map showed me controlling the big wasteland province right where they start. It was gray and my Oman name went through it.
3 - I've started maybe 5 games and I always start with 3 lvl 1 -stab cost advisers to pick from.
4 - Rebels stacks have been big. Like with Oirat or Oman they were spawning 16 stacks which were over or at my force limit. Had to hire mercs and lose 100 ducats just to defeat them. Maybe they are supposed to be that big now, but they weren't before the expansion.
Also
1 - Idk if it's like this for other nations but if you pause it and try to hover over the horde power at the top, the pause icon is blocking the tooltips.
2 - As Oman I conquered a bit and the map showed me controlling the big wasteland province right where they start. It was gray and my Oman name went through it.
3 - I've started maybe 5 games and I always start with 3 lvl 1 -stab cost advisers to pick from.
4 - Rebels stacks have been big. Like with Oirat or Oman they were spawning 16 stacks which were over or at my force limit. Had to hire mercs and lose 100 ducats just to defeat them. Maybe they are supposed to be that big now, but they weren't before the expansion.
It does seem to work like described in the diary. The real problem starts when you do not have any forts on the border and they do, then you cannot retreat into your own land anymore and get stuck until the fort is down, surely that cannot be intended....exiting ZoC into land you hold should always be allowed.