So as any Mediterranean country colonization is even more pointless

[ABookshelf]

Also having dynamic trade routes is not something so easy to program for this system. It's like asking "How come the AI doesn't exactly model what a real human ruler would do?" Sure it would be a good idea to do but it's way too hard to do at this point so whats the point of discussing it? If you're going to suggest or discuss ideas, it's vital to FIRST recognize how hard it is to incorporate.

 

[Thanik]

And you are like "Really awesome!" and n hours later: "Wait, why as Venice I can not just benefit from the goods coming from the New World? I have best merchants and best fleet ever, and even couple of my own Colonial Nations".
(...)
And then on the forums some guys are like "FU, ANOTHER NOOB WANTS 'I WIN BUTTON!!!!!'".

You can benefit from colonies in Americas. If you have the best merchants, and navy I see no problem to capture one province (OMG ONE PROVINCE) in any trade node after WETN. It is harder but still profitable.
Simiilar to all things it is hybrid of historical , and sandbox style.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Go rage somewhere else. Or do you have proofs that the changes are hard? Maybe they implemented it in mind that it may be easily modified to dynamic/anything, how do you know? 1) Pure speculations

Because if you try to model a circular trade path, the game crashes on startup. Don't say I don't know how the system works when you don't. I've already explained twice in this thread why circular trade paths won't work with the current mechanic. And you still choose to ignore those points. That's not helping your argument.

2) Current Trade Routes system is a fairly simple graph, no Rocket Science involved.
Also, it doesn't matters how hard it is at the first place. Users want to discuss and suggest things, it is not their concern how to implement something, the developers take ideas into consideration or do not take.

People should at least try to understand the limitations of the system before they suggest new things. It's not quite as simple as you think, since when you add a new node or path you need to make sure that in conjunction with the other game mechanics it's not throwing things out of the desired balance. Especially if, as people are suggesting, you remove the end node currently at Sevilla.

 

[unmerged(9145)]

Please, don't try to make impression that you actually know about the engine (did you see it?) or how hard/easy it is to make specific changes. Unless you have insights, you can not know how exactly the trade nodes are implemented.
It is just pure speculations.

Don't tell a programmer - or even a competent modder - what can or cannot be inferred about the engine. There are many ways to poke the black box to see what happens, essentially doing a bit of indirect reverse-engineering based on the results of your tests. Since all programming languages are at their absolute linear in function and logic you're always left with a very limited set of possibilities, and further testing will prune these possibilities. This is programming 101, which while obtuse to the clueless general public - such as yourself - its painfully obvious to anyone with a clue, which includes most modders, whether they IRL programmers or not.

In other words, when it's clear you don't know what you're talking about keeping your pie-hole shut while the experts debate is the best way to avoid embarrassing yourself.

 

[Saintrl]

I hope the Trade Capitol mechanic in the next DLC will make it easier to have good trade. At least you're not restricted to your home node anymore.

 

[wilcoxchar]

I hope the Trade Capitol mechanic in the next DLC will make it easier to have good trade. At least you're not restricted to your home node anymore.

You were never restricted to your home node. But yes, trade capitals will be a good addition to add more strategic options for trade.

 

[gnome109]

Please anything but centers of trade again.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Playing with Venice in 1.5, re-elections + joining the empire got me into the New World in Greenland by late 1479 despite going over #relations limit. A quick look at the map at that point showed that this actually was before Portugal managed to drop a colony in Brazil, meaning Venice literally colonized the new world 1st .

It would be hard to argue that going exploration isn't worth it if you can pull that off...once your colonies are overpowering they'll have to either come into the Mediterranean or beat your larger colonies for war score. Neither is plausible.

The money in Gulf of St. Lawrewnce if you have NA monopolized and direct --> collect there is pretty impressive.

And man, I'm starting to adore merchant republics. Money is nice, but MP control (with a high-floor if you understand the tradeoffs on reelection) + no regencies ever is great. I wish there weren't so few of them.

 

[Musthavename]

What's the issue with having Genoa or Venice collect trade in Seville using their Mediterranean fleets?

Because then they get hit with the "collecting not in capital" penalty. Forwarding it makes far more sense.

To reverse the question, what's the issue with allowing the Italians to steer trade away from Seville? If they can do it, it implies the Spanish can't protect the straights.

 

[Gamera]

Lost lambs!

Thou shall believe in the Lord Paradox,
May he reward those who trust his words,
As the Wealth of Nations is near, my friends,
Give thyself to prayers,
And believe the almighty Lord will fix trade!

 

[Albert I]

Also having dynamic trade routes is not something so easy to program for this system. It's like asking "How come the AI doesn't exactly model what a real human ruler would do?" Sure it would be a good idea to do but it's way too hard to do at this point so whats the point of discussing it? If you're going to suggest or discuss ideas, it's vital to FIRST recognize how hard it is to incorporate.

I dislike the actual system, it's a deterministic system. "Because genova give money to spain" we need a route from Sevilla to Genova. If I'm Navarre and I eat Portugal and Spain? I use my route.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Because then they get hit with the "collecting not in capital" penalty. Forwarding it makes far more sense.

To reverse the question, what's the issue with allowing the Italians to steer trade away from Seville? If they can do it, it implies the Spanish can't protect the straights.

So you're complaining that Venice and Genoa colonizing the New World isn't the optimal strategy? Good. It's not supposed to be the optimal strategy for the Mediterranean powers. And the penalty for collecting in your capital is just a penalty for trade power IIRC. If your navy is big enough that you're overpowering whoever owns the provinces in Sevilla (or as some people have said you take them yourself), why does it matter that it's not your capital node. This reasoning doesn't even matter at this point since with Wealth of Nations you can just put your economic capital in Sevilla.

The issue with making Sevilla not an end node is, as I said, that it would make it so colonizing the New World is the ideal strategy for Mediterranean powers. That shouldn't be the case. It's about game balancing.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So you're complaining that Venice and Genoa colonizing the New World isn't the optimal strategy? Good. It's not supposed to be the optimal strategy for the Mediterranean powers. And the penalty for collecting in your capital is just a penalty for trade power IIRC. If your navy is big enough that you're overpowering whoever owns the provinces in Sevilla (or as some people have said you take them yourself), why does it matter that it's not your capital node. This reasoning doesn't even matter at this point since with Wealth of Nations you can just put your economic capital in Sevilla.

The issue with making Sevilla not an end node is, as I said, that it would make it so colonizing the New World is the ideal strategy for Mediterranean powers. That shouldn't be the case. It's about game balancing.

What is better than colonizing for them, even now? Can any other 1st idea group beat getting colonies in the late 1400's? Even with the collecting penalty in St. Lawrence...so what? Can you list something that's actually stronger than that?

Venice in the empire with a FL greater than 90 in both army and navy, despite limited manpower, is pretty devastating. I can't think of anything they can do otherwise that would match that.