So as any Mediterranean country colonization is even more pointless

[Thanik]

It seems that colonies are for making money off of Tariffs - at least for AI Spain it seems to work. By the end of my last game they were making 31% of its income from Tariffs. They also had a naval force limit of 424 which I assume mostly came from CNs which allowed them to support a fleet of 317 light ships (38% income from trade).

This!

If you are a trading nation in the Mediterranean sea, I agree forget about colonization.

I cannot agree.

1. Colonization mean not only America, but also Africa, Asia and Oceania - you can collect there, or tranfer trade to Mediterranean sea, and then collect there

2. Capture one province in Western Europe, and you can collect there.

3. Capture one province in America ,and collect there.

4. Take colonies, and give less income, manpower and allies to your potential enemies. Also you take other colonial nations from your enemies for even more income.


Maybe it is harder, but still profitable.

 

[irgendwas1984]

If i remeber right Genua has two missions to conquer Gibraltar and Tanger or so ... so conquer it and be happy

 

[Thund91]

I'm still under the impression that Sevilla/Bordeaux should flow to Genoa and not the other way around.

 

[laijka]

If i remeber right Genua has two missions to conquer Gibraltar and Tanger or so ... so conquer it and be happy

AI Genoa actually attempted that Conquer Gibraltar mission yesterday in my game. Succeeded too but got its ass handed to it a year later by AI Castille and its Reconquista mission.

 

[MiniaAr]

If i remeber right Genua has two missions to conquer Gibraltar and Tanger or so ... so conquer it and be happy

With Genoa's extreme Mercantilism (missions can give up to 70% ), two provinces, or three with Oran, will be enough to steal a great deal of Sevilla's value. The alliance with France needs to be strong to keep those lands from the Iberian though.

I'm still under the impression that Sevilla/Bordeaux should flow to Genoa and not the other way around.

At least for Sevilla yes, as most American gold the Spanish took to Europe only transited in Sevilla and actually ended up in Genoese banks' coffers.:happy:

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Trade centers were the best!

Being able to accumulate 25% of world tariffs as one province land locked Alsace was so amazing:wacko:

 

[delpiero1234]

Sure, if Venice managed to colonize the Caribbean they could have tried to steer that trade to Venice... until whoever controlled the Strait of Gibraltar parked a fleet there and diverted the ships elsewhere.

True but I liberated Granada and conquered parts of Spain and Portugal so the argument that Mediterranean countries like Savoy cannot colonize because Spain owns the Straits of Gibraltar is pretty shitty.

 

[Beagá]

Idea:

Make conquering the Straits make trade flow TO Genoa instead of FROM.

Solved. That is, be decision you should be able to change the trade flow.

 

[delpiero1234]

Idea:

Make conquering the Straits make trade flow TO Genoa instead of FROM.

Would love this addition but Paradox refuses to improve trade.
Your suggestion should be applied to all trade flows.

Different scenario: A persian Empire controls all of Northern Africa but cannot steer trade back from Tunis & Alexandria to Persia. The trade system is just stupid.

 

[Beagá]

Better having a small fix than none.

It is easy to apply, no reason why Paradox couldn´t do it - or add as decision to modders.

 

[deezee]

This is historically true. Unfortunately. To steer the mass of colonial wealth to you pocket the only way is through conquest of Atlantic Coast for the New Continent or the Egypt for the East.

There was not any Mediterranean nation that had a major stake in colonization, with the exception of Spain and France which ALSO had Atlantic coasts.
This is in part because the differences in ships used; a Mediterranean navy was usually composed of galleys that could not traverse the open seas, while Atlantic navies tended to be composed of heavier, wind powered, ships which performed poorly in the erratic and relatively weak Mediterranean winds (there's a reason why galleys have oars). A hypothetical Mediterranean nation who sought to colonize the new world would have to build a fleet of ships that were unsuited for their own coasts for the sole purpose of this goal, which no historical nation believed worthwhile.
That said, if we imagine a hypothetical colonial Mediterranean nation, it is quite reasonable that their trade would be forced to pass through Atlantic ports; they would need to transfer shipping from heavy sea-going ships to light galleys, or else sail the heavy ships inland where they tended to perform relatively poorly, especially given that they usually lacked oars and could not sail based on the more erratic Mediterranean winds. This would require transshipment through Atlantic ports; so unless they either possessed such a port themselves or had such a powerful navy they were able to require that merchants sail straight through despite piracy and inefficiency of the ships, and guide the trade directly home.
That said, both in game and in real life, a Mediterranean nation could simply attempt to create a trade hub within the colonies and steer trade through that port, regardless of where shipping travelled next.

 

[CanOmer]

One of the biggest flaws of Eu4 is trade system. It looks gorgeous. But when you understand the strict structure of it you may want back the Eu3's trade system. I hope trade overhaul in Wealth of Nations.

 

[penquin11]

Sure, if Venice managed to colonize the Caribbean they could have tried to steer that trade to Venice... until whoever controlled the Strait of Gibraltar parked a fleet there and diverted the ships elsewhere. There was a reason Venice and Genoa never tried to colonize anywhere in the New World historically. The new trade routes do a lot better at modeling this than the centers of trade did.

You are thinking as if every route is predefined. It would have been entirely possible for Venice to push its trade into Mali and it progress up the Niger River to the Venetian trade posts that they had in Northern Africa during the time.

Gibralter only became important because Spain/Portugal dominated trade from the colonies in the Mediterranean.

Look at Constantinople/Istanbul as an example of a prominent trade city/choke point that lost its importance over time due to the emergence of other trade powers.

Trade routes change with the powers that control them....

 

[deezee]

One of the biggest flaws of Eu4 is trade system. It looks gorgeous. But when you understand the strict structure of it you may want back the Eu3's trade system. I hope trade overhaul in Wealth of Nations.

Not really. The EU3 trade system sucked; it could only handle trade within COTs, not between nodes. For all the problems with how EU4 models long distance trade, at least it does SOMETHING.

 

[delpiero1234]

Not really. The EU3 trade system sucked; it could only handle trade within COTs, not between nodes. For all the problems with how EU4 models long distance trade, at least it does SOMETHING.

Trade Centers were much better than the current system is.

 

[mocoman2001]

I like the trade system, but they need to get rid of end nodes, and starting nodes. And flow should go both ways. Why cant the ottomans take in trade from Venice? why cant japan take trade in from china?

 

[MiniaAr]

Trade Centers were much better than the current system is.

Then we must agree to disagree, COTs were a pain to deal with, or suboptimally managed with the autosend feature, with no possibility to dominate instead of either conquering everything and going mercantilist or doing nothing and goind free trade. In short, no real trade strategy at all.

 

[jockedahl]

Only newbs steer. Collecting is for pros. Med Powers can profit from colonization.

 

[delpiero1234]

Only newbs steer. Collecting is for pros. Med Powers can profit from colonization.

Collecting requieres a merchant present. Unless you are a newb and take trading ideas then I don't understand how you plan to collect trade in all these different trade nodes.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Collecting requieres a merchant present. Unless you are a newb and take trading ideas then I don't understand how you plan to collect trade in all these different trade nodes.

You collect in the capitol by default, merchant only adds 10% there and is rarely efficient unless you simply can't allocate a merchant elsewhere or have no trade power elsewhere.

So, steer somewhere in the new world you can collect easily. Testing it with the Hansa, my income was greater collecting in St. Lawrence than my home node, expressly because I had no significant competition there, and I got what remained in capitol to some extent regardless. The 50% penalty is not a big deal if you have a trade stranglehold somewhere and have colonial power + light ships putting up a ton...certainly it's not enough to be more significant than a large amount of competing fleets + province tradepower that other nations can do.