So, all my allies just turned domineering and broke alliances with me, any suggestions?

[Opanashc]

Thats not how this works.

It's exactly how it works. Not knowing, doing and seeing the consequences - learning from personal experience. Not knowing, asking or researching - learning from others.
Fact of the matter - this information is posted on EU4 wikipedia.

Are you confusing me with OP? I'm well aware of this mechanic thanks to these forums, which is why I've never pressed that button and probably never will. No tantrum here mate.

You are the one throwing a tantrum, not the OP - writing in all caps and all.

You’re the one throwing a tantrum.
The tool tip should absolutely tell you what will happen. It’s what tool tips are for and it’s incomplete.

You are entitled to your own opinion.
I am not the one posting in all caps.

I made this post. And I have 3K hours in this game. I took a brake for about a year from this game. Last time I played pressing this button didn't make me lose all my alliences. In the past I did it as Castel, cuz they have awful heir at the start of the campaign.

I did not throw any tantrums, I was confused and frustrated. At the end of the day, I accepted PU and then DOW Spain for my independence. I had no idea that RM get Restore-PU on you, because it doesn't make much sense. Heir isn't their Dynasty or nothing.

But you should chill. People make mistakes. Live and learn. I did learn through my own experience, cuz in my 3000 hours this never happened to me before.

Please point out, where I was talking about you.

 

[Zaddy]

You are the one throwing a tantrum, not the OP - writing in all caps and all.

Okay, I really have to ask: respectfully, is English not your native language? I wrote something in quotation marks in all-caps to show that I think the game should emphasize that. The context of the sentence and the quotation marks made that pretty clear, I'd say. Zero tantrum, because I have nothing to be angry about.

 

[Opanashc]

Okay, I really have to ask: respectfully, is English not your native language? I wrote something in quotation marks in all-caps to show that I think the game should emphasize that. The context of the sentence and the quotation marks made that pretty clear, I'd say. Zero tantrum, because I have nothing to be angry about.

I didn't realize, that those were quotation marks. "" are quotation marks and ** are asterisks.
In that case, my apologies - you were not very clear in delivering your message, hence I misunderstood.

 

[Zaddy]

I didn't realize, that those were quotation marks. "" are quotation marks and ** are asterisks.
In that case, my apologies - you were not very clear in delivering your message, hence I misunderstood.

Alright, I see where the confusion arose. I shall fix it.

 

[Manwe_Sulimo]

Well that disagreement was resolved in a civilized manner

Regarding the matter at hand, I find it very logical that your RM partners get a PU Casus Belli on you when you press that button, because what does that button imply? It means that you change the laws of succession of your country. Instead of the current line of succession, where the children of your RM partner are somewhere at the frontline (one of them likely as heir presumptive), you place a random noble from your country as first in the line of succession, ignoring any of the claims they have to the succession.

A good historical example is the Austrian War of Succession. Emperor Charles VI. issued the Pragmatic Sanction in 1713 under the impression of the Spanish War of Succession (and as last male member of the Habsburg dynasty) and managed to get it passed as law in all the Habsburg lands over the course of several years. The Pragmatic Sanction resulted in a change of the line of succession: Before it was first any male heirs, then the daughters of his late brother Joseph and only then his own daughters. Afterwards it was first any male heirs, then Charles VI.' daughters and only then Joseph's daughters. When Charles died in 1740 and his daughter Maria Theresia succeeded the throne the rulers of Bavaria and Saxony claimed the Austrian throne because there were married to Joseph's daughters, who would have inherited under the older rules.
This unstable situation was then abused by Prussia who invaded Silesia and started the Austrian War of Succession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_Sanction_of_1713 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Austrian_Succession

The main issue I see is the tooltip, as said by others it should contain an obvious warning to the consequences.
Generally, I think it is one of the best changes in recent times to have nations actually pursue their PUs. Although I agree, that the AI should be weighing its choices a bit better and not break Alliances it absolutely relies on for survival for a PU casus belli it has no chance to enforce. However, if exceptions to the current Domineering switch get introduced, the AI should still take high risks for this matter, of course a 10 dev OPM should not try to enforce PU on France, but someone the likes of Savoy or Provence should try it as it is only unlikely but not impossible.

I would advise not only to beginners but also more experienced players to always consult the Wiki if consequences of certain actions are not crystal-clear. It is probably one of the main weakness of EU4 that the in-game information is extremely limited. The Devs should try to improve this in the worst examples, such as this one. But it is unrealistic that the general situation changes fundamentally soon (= before a possible EU5) as it would be very complex.

 

[grisamentum]

Regarding the matter at hand, I find it very logical that your RM partners get a PU Casus Belli on you when you press that button, because what does that button imply? It means that you change the laws of succession of your country. Instead of the current line of succession, where the children of your RM partner are somewhere at the frontline (one of them likely as heir presumptive), you place a random noble from your country as first in the line of succession, ignoring any of the claims they have to the succession.

As I mentioned, the CB itself is not really the problem.

The problem is that the AI decides that having the CB at all means that their attitude should now become "Domineering," which will break the alliance. Even if the ally has no realistic chance of enforcing the PU. If you have an alliance and royal marriage with a 3 dev OPM, and you introduce heir, that 3 dev OPM will be willing to break its only alliance, its only reason for still surviving, because it thinks it has a shot at enforcing the PU. Regardless of how big the target is.

 

[Manwe_Sulimo]

Yes as I wrote, I agree with you on that.
I was mainly responding to this:

I had no idea that RM get Restore-PU on you, because it doesn't make much sense. Heir isn't their Dynasty or nothing.

 

[AlleyTheToaster]

A good historical example is the Austrian War of Succession. Emperor Charles VI. issued the Pragmatic Sanction in 1713 under the impression of the Spanish War of Succession (and as last male member of the Habsburg dynasty) and managed to get it passed as law in all the Habsburg lands over the course of several years. The Pragmatic Sanction resulted in a change of the line of succession: Before it was first any male heirs, then the daughters of his late brother Joseph and only then his own daughters. Afterwards it was first any male heirs, then Charles VI.' daughters and only then Joseph's daughters. When Charles died in 1740 and his daughter Maria Theresia succeeded the throne the rulers of Bavaria and Saxony claimed the Austrian throne because there were married to Joseph's daughters, who would have inherited under the older rules.
This unstable situation was then abused by Prussia who invaded Silesia and started the Austrian War of Succession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_Sanction_of_1713 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Austrian_Succession

Thanks for this. It does make sense then. BUT, game doesn't specify what'll happen. I think since it gives CB on you for all your RM, game should have a confirmation pop up something like "This will give Restoration of PU for all your RM - Yes/No". It's quite bizarre that such an important mechanic is treated so lightly. As I said, I pressed this button in the past, and it never made my allies go Hostile. That's why I was confident in pressing it.

 

[ASL Veteran]

Okay so I haven't played EU4 since maybe last summer. I didn't buy the Leviathan DLC - I'm a little cautious about it judging from the negative feedback that's out there on Steam. Anyway, I fired up a game as Portugal just to take the game for a spin just to see what's changed. Weeeeellllll, I must say that things have changed and not necessarily in a good way - at least as to how my game went. It's basically over now even though it's not technically over - I just tossed in the towel. For one thing my King dropped dead about maybe on average every five years? The first dude kicked the bucket in 1447 and then there was a regency for like maybe seven years and then the next king took over for maybe four years and kicked the bucket - then a queen regency for another five or six years and on and on. I've played up until 1481? I've already gone through like four or five kings and maybe three queen regencies and one noble regency? My typical thing as Portugal is to immediately break the alliance with England and ally with Spain because - well as Portugal if Spain doesn't like you the game can be quite short and unpleasant. Due to the fact that my king kept kicking the bucket over and over and over again, eventually something happened whereby Spain got a restoration of union casus belli and the fact is I never pushed any buttons for anything because there were no buttons to push for my heirs. I just took whatever heir was available because literally the king was dead within two or three years of being crowned. I don't think a single king made it to the age of 25 other than maybe the one that starts the game and only because I'm not sure how old he is when the game starts. Heck, I'm not sure anyone made it to twenty to be honest.

The odd thing about it was that every heir had less legitimacy than the previous one even though they were all from the same family. The last names were all the same. The first king had legitimacy somewhere in the 90s and the last one was somewhere in the high 30s - so not really sure why the successor with the same name from the same dynasty was getting progressively less legitimate but hey, I kept going until finally at some point Spain decided that I was going to make a great subject and became domineering. I managed to score an alliance with France and the Papal States which held Castile / Aragon / Naples at bay for a time, but now France is fighting England and Castile smells opportunity and now the game is basically over. Castilian troops are all lined up on the border ready to go and I'm going to be toast soon. Once again though - I never pressed any buttons - I don't even own Leviathan so if the button is in Leviathan, then I can't push that button because it ain't there. All I know is that the life expectancy of the King of Portugal is about maybe three years and apparently don't get a royal marriage with Castile at any point or your game will end.

 

[Damedius]

Yeah, should 100% tell you the trade off for pushing that button.

Losing all your alliances is dangerous enough, but to have them then become your enemies could be game ending.

I think this is the big problem. Paradox throws a screw you button into the game. Which of course leads to the player being angry once they discover it.

Then they come to the forums only to be belittled by some players on the forum who take pleasure in the misfortunes of others.

 

[Terixis]

The only solution is to roll back to 1.30 or 1.31. I personally avoid the problem by trying to be at war as much as possible after disinheriting a bad heir since you can't fall under a PU while at war. As long as your king isn't 60+ and infertile you've got a pretty good chance of him producing a new heir normally before dying anyway though.

Or just bird it when your ruler dies.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

Okay so I haven't played EU4 since maybe last summer. I didn't buy the Leviathan DLC - I'm a little cautious about it judging from the negative feedback that's out there on Steam. Anyway, I fired up a game as Portugal just to take the game for a spin just to see what's changed. Weeeeellllll, I must say that things have changed and not necessarily in a good way - at least as to how my game went. It's basically over now even though it's not technically over - I just tossed in the towel. For one thing my King dropped dead about maybe on average every five years? The first dude kicked the bucket in 1447 and then there was a regency for like maybe seven years and then the next king took over for maybe four years and kicked the bucket - then a queen regency for another five or six years and on and on. I've played up until 1481? I've already gone through like four or five kings and maybe three queen regencies and one noble regency? My typical thing as Portugal is to immediately break the alliance with England and ally with Spain because - well as Portugal if Spain doesn't like you the game can be quite short and unpleasant. Due to the fact that my king kept kicking the bucket over and over and over again, eventually something happened whereby Spain got a restoration of union casus belli and the fact is I never pushed any buttons for anything because there were no buttons to push for my heirs. I just took whatever heir was available because literally the king was dead within two or three years of being crowned. I don't think a single king made it to the age of 25 other than maybe the one that starts the game and only because I'm not sure how old he is when the game starts. Heck, I'm not sure anyone made it to twenty to be honest.

The odd thing about it was that every heir had less legitimacy than the previous one even though they were all from the same family. The last names were all the same. The first king had legitimacy somewhere in the 90s and the last one was somewhere in the high 30s - so not really sure why the successor with the same name from the same dynasty was getting progressively less legitimate but hey, I kept going until finally at some point Spain decided that I was going to make a great subject and became domineering. I managed to score an alliance with France and the Papal States which held Castile / Aragon / Naples at bay for a time, but now France is fighting England and Castile smells opportunity and now the game is basically over. Castilian troops are all lined up on the border ready to go and I'm going to be toast soon. Once again though - I never pressed any buttons - I don't even own Leviathan so if the button is in Leviathan, then I can't push that button because it ain't there. All I know is that the life expectancy of the King of Portugal is about maybe three years and apparently don't get a royal marriage with Castile at any point or your game will end.

Ok so thats really bad luck with the rulers.

Castile gets a union CB from their mission tree. The AI is now finally pursuing these mission to that's why they are getting domineering and trying to get you.

 

[Manwe_Sulimo]

Okay so I haven't played EU4 since maybe last summer. I didn't buy the Leviathan DLC - I'm a little cautious about it judging from the negative feedback that's out there on Steam. Anyway, I fired up a game as Portugal just to take the game for a spin just to see what's changed. Weeeeellllll, I must say that things have changed and not necessarily in a good way - at least as to how my game went. It's basically over now even though it's not technically over - I just tossed in the towel. For one thing my King dropped dead about maybe on average every five years? The first dude kicked the bucket in 1447 and then there was a regency for like maybe seven years and then the next king took over for maybe four years and kicked the bucket - then a queen regency for another five or six years and on and on. I've played up until 1481? I've already gone through like four or five kings and maybe three queen regencies and one noble regency? My typical thing as Portugal is to immediately break the alliance with England and ally with Spain because - well as Portugal if Spain doesn't like you the game can be quite short and unpleasant. Due to the fact that my king kept kicking the bucket over and over and over again, eventually something happened whereby Spain got a restoration of union casus belli and the fact is I never pushed any buttons for anything because there were no buttons to push for my heirs. I just took whatever heir was available because literally the king was dead within two or three years of being crowned. I don't think a single king made it to the age of 25 other than maybe the one that starts the game and only because I'm not sure how old he is when the game starts. Heck, I'm not sure anyone made it to twenty to be honest.

The odd thing about it was that every heir had less legitimacy than the previous one even though they were all from the same family. The last names were all the same. The first king had legitimacy somewhere in the 90s and the last one was somewhere in the high 30s - so not really sure why the successor with the same name from the same dynasty was getting progressively less legitimate but hey, I kept going until finally at some point Spain decided that I was going to make a great subject and became domineering. I managed to score an alliance with France and the Papal States which held Castile / Aragon / Naples at bay for a time, but now France is fighting England and Castile smells opportunity and now the game is basically over. Castilian troops are all lined up on the border ready to go and I'm going to be toast soon. Once again though - I never pressed any buttons - I don't even own Leviathan so if the button is in Leviathan, then I can't push that button because it ain't there. All I know is that the life expectancy of the King of Portugal is about maybe three years and apparently don't get a royal marriage with Castile at any point or your game will end.

Definitely not a normal game, either you are having some weird bug from a mod or so or you have been extremely unlucky. Castile did not get domineering because of your rules dying but because of their mission tree after the Iberian Wedding due to their mission tree.
You can avoid Castile getting domineering by making Aragon lose one of its mainland provinces as the mission of Castile for the PU requires all those provinces, so if Aragon for example loses one of its border provinces to France (or one of them to you), then Castile won't get the mission. The islands or Italian holdings are not relevant for the mission though, so don't take those.

The mission will be moved to a later spot in the next update.

 

[ASL Veteran]

I don't play with any mods. I was going to start a CK3 game but since that expansion thing is about to be released it felt better to wait for that. My Stellaris games always end because my planets are all empty when the end game crisis happens, and I can't create enough stuff to hold them off lol. I might have to try again and build robots cause I can't figure out how to get enough pops on my planets. Anyway, as far as EU4 goes I did like the separate naval and army commanders - that's pretty nice. I noticed that galleys seem to have that special advantage in all coastal waters which - not really sure I like that since it seems like it's overdoing it a bit considering how large these coastal areas are. Yet, I can't have a galley do anti pirate patrols anywhere but in the Mediterranean or probably in the Baltic. So on the one hand they can fight better off the coast of Portugal so I could use them for coastal defense, but they can't seem to patrol for pirates in the Seville Trade Node - at least that didn't seem to be an option when I tried. Thus I can't use them to prevent those annoying Berbers from pillaging my coasts all the time (dang those guys are annoying).

Didn't want to knock the thread off the rails, but I felt it important to mention that I don't use any mods and that the rulers were all dying because (shrug).

 

[Damedius]

I don't play with any mods. I was going to start a CK3 game but since that expansion thing is about to be released it felt better to wait for that. My Stellaris games always end because my planets are all empty when the end game crisis happens, and I can't create enough stuff to hold them off lol. I might have to try again and build robots cause I can't figure out how to get enough pops on my planets. Anyway, as far as EU4 goes I did like the separate naval and army commanders - that's pretty nice. I noticed that galleys seem to have that special advantage in all coastal waters which - not really sure I like that since it seems like it's overdoing it a bit considering how large these coastal areas are. Yet, I can't have a galley do anti pirate patrols anywhere but in the Mediterranean or probably in the Baltic. So on the one hand they can fight better off the coast of Portugal so I could use them for coastal defense, but they can't seem to patrol for pirates in the Seville Trade Node - at least that didn't seem to be an option when I tried. Thus I can't use them to prevent those annoying Berbers from pillaging my coasts all the time (dang those guys are annoying).

Didn't want to knock the thread off the rails, but I felt it important to mention that I don't use any mods and that the rulers were all dying because (shrug).

Well I haven't played Stellaris in awhile but I always played without robots even though they are strong.

I used to always pick rapid breeders and I think pop growth was tied to your population. So you want your main planets to be almost full and then move your pops once you get over populated. You also want to rush colonization early and rush terraforming tech.

Just look up the prerequisites. You also want to rush the prerequisites for Arcology. With Paradox games the min/maxxers tend to scream the game is too easy, so then Paradox rebalances the game with min/maxxers in mind leading to casual/new players getting met with a rather steep learning curve.

 

[ASL Veteran]

Well I haven't played Stellaris in awhile but I always played without robots even though they are strong.

I used to always pick rapid breeders and I think pop growth was tied to your population. So you want your main planets to be almost full and then move your pops once you get over populated. You also want to rush colonization early and rush terraforming tech.

Just look up the prerequisites. You also want to rush the prerequisites for Arcology. With Paradox games the min/maxxers tend to scream the game is too easy, so then Paradox rebalances the game with min/maxxers in mind leading to casual/new players getting met with a rather steep learning curve.

Yeah I never had any trouble with Pop growth before - in fact I would take slow breeders and not allow refugees and my planets would still be full by game end. Now it's different - like way different. Now even my home planet hasn't reached capacity by the time the end game crisis hits. I set allow refugees and I entered into several migration treaties and the planets are still empty (something I never had to do before!). The only thing I haven't tried is building robots which basically eliminates the spiritual game. I think pop growth now scales such that the more crowded your planet is the slower the pop growth gets. I watched a YouTube video where the guy said that pop growth is now on an S curve or something? Now I guess it's based on the difference between planet capacity and housing or something? I don't remember exactly, but he said that now the way to maximize pop growth is to have a bunch of resource planets with low housing and an Ecumenopolis where everyone from the resource planets will move to or something like that.

Back to Portugal - that's one of the recommended nations for people starting the game. I think if Castile gets that thing in their objective tree that maybe that recommendation should be modified a bit . Some newby is going to fire up a game as Portugal and before they make it to 1500 Castile is crossing the border and that's going to leave a mark.

 

[Restless Native]

Back to Portugal - that's one of the recommended nations for people starting the game. I think if Castile gets that thing in their objective tree that maybe that recommendation should be modified a bit . Some newby is going to fire up a game as Portugal and before they make it to 1500 Castile is crossing the border and that's going to leave a mark.

I’m think that ‘recommendation’ was long before mission trees existed. If you play as Portugal now you need to actively try to prevent Castile progressing their missions tree or get powerful enough quick enough to fight them off.

 

[Damedius]

Yeah I never had any trouble with Pop growth before - in fact I would take slow breeders and not allow refugees and my planets would still be full by game end. Now it's different - like way different. Now even my home planet hasn't reached capacity by the time the end game crisis hits. I set allow refugees and I entered into several migration treaties and the planets are still empty (something I never had to do before!). The only thing I haven't tried is building robots which basically eliminates the spiritual game. I think pop growth now scales such that the more crowded your planet is the slower the pop growth gets. I watched a YouTube video where the guy said that pop growth is now on an S curve or something? Now I guess it's based on the difference between planet capacity and housing or something? I don't remember exactly, but he said that now the way to maximize pop growth is to have a bunch of resource planets with low housing and an Ecumenopolis where everyone from the resource planets will move to or something like that.

Back to Portugal - that's one of the recommended nations for people starting the game. I think if Castile gets that thing in their objective tree that maybe that recommendation should be modified a bit . Some newby is going to fire up a game as Portugal and before they make it to 1500 Castile is crossing the border and that's going to leave a mark.

That's it, you jogged my memory. Pop growth is tied to planet capacity. So as you can afford it, you want to get housing to increase your capacity. You also want to target larger planets. Here is a video I found that goes into depth explaining it.

Back to Portugal - Yeah it's not good for a newbie any more. You can't really just chill with Portugal like you used to be able to. If you know what you are doing it isn't bad because you can just stab them in the back the first time they are vulnerable. Take out a few loans and get some mercs. You can do when they go to war or when the Castilian civil war fires.