Sniper squad

[momerathe]

On a lot of the streams, people tend to configure their mechs as short range brawlers. Now, this makes a lot of sense - brawlers have much higher DPS, engagement ranges are often incredibly close, and you don't need to faff around with sensor locking. On the other hand we have many people here looking forward to LRM boating ASAP .

Now, I can be a pointlessly contrary sort at times, and if everyone's doing something I want to find a different solution for.. no good reason. So, as I plan what to do when I get my grubby little hands on the game, my thoughts turn to long-range direct fire.

If I want to play keep-away and stay out of SRM/ML range, I'm going to want jump jets on most things -this also helps getting LOS around terrain. Plus, to fire outside of visual range requires a sensor-locker, which drops the lance's damage output by 25%. I'm going to want mechs that run cool so I can keep jumping and firing.

The downside to all this is that LRM boating will almost certainly do it better - so long as your ammo holds out.

 

[Carog the Fat]

Your biggest problem will be line of sight while trying to use ppcs and ac2/5 to snipe stuff

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Sprinting as well as Max-Jump-with-Brace will also play havoc with Long Range Direct and Indirect Lances.

 

[Deshiva]

I also enjoy sniping with direct fire, but it’s harder to do than LRM rain. You can shoot from very long distances but any intervening terrain can make it hard to get a shot off. With good positioning it’s definetly viable.

My personal prefrence is to have two mechs up front fighting at short to medium distance and two sniping from the back. Sensor lock is on one of the frontliners if necessary. But i can melee targets to not just remove evasion but also guarded states, this makes my snipers shoot with no negatives. Sniping with ppcs and meleeing with frontliners can quickly cause knockdowns or even kills.

My frontliners are going to take hits, so it probably is a bad tactic for campaign. But i’ll try something similar on Tuesday

 

[momerathe]

Your biggest problem will be line of sight while trying to use ppcs and ac2/5 to snipe stuff

True, hence the necessity for jump jets. I recognise it's a problem though, given some of the terrain particularly in the story missions.

Sprinting as well as Max-Jump-with-Brace will also play havoc with Long Range Direct and Indirect Lances.

I should note I'm thinking mainly of campaign here, so whether the AI is smart enough to make maximum use of these remains to be seen..

 

[Rabid]

I am aiming for a hybrid approach with a lot of LRMs but my LRM carriers will mostly be configured for and expected to actively engage in front line combat, i.e. with max armour and some MLs. The logic for this is basically as follows:

• I need either a spotter or some sensor lock usage in order to actually be able to use any weapon, including LRMs. Using sensor lock denies one of my units the ability to attack that turn so optimally I would prefer to not use sensor lock
  
• If any of your mechs are exposed on the frontline then you don't gain much benefit from keeping your LRM carriers completely safe because you're not actually denying the enemy the ability to output damage
• If my more dedicated frontline mech or mechs suffer heavy damage (or are removed from combat even!) then having another mech which is able to soak damage effectively is a great help
  
• Ideally where it makes sense I want to be sitting within 420m to avoid long range to hit penalties; this also exposes you to a wider range of enemy weapons
• You actually have some weapons left to use in the hopefully rare circumstance that you run out of ammo

And of course such a configuration is still perfectly capable of playing the "I'm going to hide all of my mechs" game, it's just not totally wedded to it.

I'd be interested to know exactly what sensor / sensor lock range is though, obviously this is quite a significant factor in deciding on effectiveness of strategies using long ranged weaponry.

 

[tobias.mb]

Why would you insist on only snipers / only brawlers though?
Use both and let your brawlers deal the main dmg while the snipers make sure your enemy can't do annoying stuff like run away or flank you.

 

[Panpiper]

This was definitely my preferred way to play in tabletop. I was all in on PPCs. I played two campaigns over the course of ten years. First time was 3025 tech and I fielded a pair of Griffins, each carrying a PPC and four medium lasers. Second campaign was with clan and lostech. In that one I wound up piloting a heavily modified Marauder with a 375XL engine for a 5/8/5 move and a pair of clan ERPPCs plus ECM, AMS & targeting comp. I had my own custom made miniature and everything.

As much as I would prefer to play similarly in this game, after watching WAY too many streamers, I am now of the opinion that going all in on long range direct fire would be quite sub-optimum. There are simply far too many maps in which terrain or the exigencies of the mission will force you into close range. Moreover, heavy use of jump jets is pretty much a requirement for long range mechs to be able to make proper use of their advantage, and in this game, such heavy use is highly inadvisable due to the much higher heat of jump jets vis-a-vis tabletop.

You could go for four Griffins/Shadowhawks/etc. armed with nothing but a single PPC and a total of 20 heat sinks (including the base 10), and you would still quickly wind up with major heat buildup issues. Moreover, 'just' 4 PPCs for firepower likely will not be sufficient for most scenarios. You won't put out enough damage to kill the enemy fast enough.

Something I have dabbled with (in my mind) is almost the opposite, four similar 55 tonners with their extreme movement/jump, all kitted out as close range brawlers with massive alpha strikes from SRMs and medium lasers. They would use their movement to flank the edges of the enemy, mobbing singletons so hard and fast they drop in a single turn. Sadly they too would likely be ill advised for many scenarios.

I have very grudgingly come to the conclusion that at least for the first half of the campaign, when I can realistically only maintain one primary combat lance, the way to go is a classically mixed lance, with a pair of such close assault mechs, all in on high alpha, short range and melee. One long range direct fire mech with a PPC and an AC5, and one LRM boat sporting a total of LRM35. The long range mech pilots will have bulwark and breaching shot. The close assault mech pilots will have evasive movement and advanced tactics.

Longer term I will likely maintain sufficient well kitted mechs to vary the lance composition as necessary for the map, such that I could, map permitting, go all for long range. At that point, I would likely also have at eight mech warriors, so I could match pilot skills appropriately as well.

All that said, if you are willing to go for pure cheese, what I think might indeed work well enough is to have four LRM boats. They would need to be well armored, as they WILL wind up in close range with the enemy in some scenarios. However (assuming Centurions) you could give them a pair of LRM15s, 4 tons of ammo and 3 medium lasers, 4 jump jets, along with max frontal armor (and not bad rear). Give all your pilots evasive movement and sensor lock. Let them take turns designating targets with the others firing (being able to not fire every four turns will help keep them cool). I expect most maps would be cake walks.

 

[Panpiper]

• You actually have some weapons left to use in the hopefully rare circumstance that you run out of ammo,

I agree with you, just playing devil's advocate for a moment. If that tonnage you devoted to those other weapons had been devoted to extra ammo, I doubt there would be any missions in which you run out of ammo.

Why would you insist on only snipers / only brawlers though?

The main reason is simplicity of tactics. You have one main strength and with proper tactics you exploit that strength maximally. A mixed lance has a mix of strengths, making a concentration of different strengths much more complicated and difficult. Moreover, a mixed lance makes it far too easy to wind up with just a portion of your lance taking all the damage, inviting destruction in detail. Deploying a mixed lance in such a way as to invite the enemy to spread it's damage to include the long ranged mechs is again more difficult, and failing to do so makes a mixed lance more vulnerable.

 

[Flying Dice]

It's definitely doable, but I think it's going to run into problems if you try to configure your whole lance that way. A lot of maps don't have the space you'll need to kite down heavier opposition, certain mission types are much more difficult if you're trying to stay at long range, and dealing with higher-quality vees is going to be difficult if you don't get in close to stomp them/get under LRM and PCC range envelopes.

 

[Rabid]

I agree with you, just playing devil's advocate for a moment. If that tonnage you devoted to those other weapons had been devoted to extra ammo, I doubt there would be any missions in which you run out of ammo.

This is certainly correct, I'm kind of baking in the possibility for some extremely long missions in the latter part of the main storyline but even then adding another 4T or so of LRM ammo to what you would normally carry is an awful lot of firepower. I only added that point as an afterthought really.

 

[tobias.mb]

The main reason is simplicity of tactics. You have one main strength and with proper tactics you exploit that strength maximally. A mixed lance has a mix of strengths, making a concentration of different strengths much more complicated and difficult. Moreover, a mixed lance makes it far too easy to wind up with just a portion of your lance taking all the damage, inviting destruction in detail. Deploying a mixed lance in such a way as to invite the enemy to spread it's damage to include the long ranged mechs is again more difficult, and failing to do so makes a mixed lance more vulnerable.

That's not really convincing imho. The Tactic for a mixed lance is pretty simple: move up on the enemy with your brawlers in the front row and the snipers a bit behind. Then smash 'em!
If anything I expect a mixed lance to have an easier time. A pure brawler lance would have a harder time dealing with flanking or retreating enemies, since you can't shoot at them without ripping apart your own formation as well; In a mixed lance the long range units can deal with those enemies. And a pure sniper / LRM lance would have to constantly keep moving to maintain distance to the enemy; Meanwhile with a mixed lance your enemy can't make a move on your long range units without first dealing with your brawlers or exposing his back.

You might argue, that a mixed lance is more efficient when handled properly (I'd expect pure LRM lances to be very scary, as long as they can maintain range); but if we are talking about simple I'm going with a mixed lance.

On the problem of your enemy concentrating on fewer mechs in a mixed lance... well true, but what are you going to do if you run a brawler lance and your enemy still decides to focus everything on one mech? With a mixed lance, you can at least expect the focus to be on one of your brawlers; Meaning you can strip some armor off your snipers and give them a bit more firepower instead.

 

[lordpepper]

My fav weapons in BT are the large lasers, ppc, gauss and AC5. therefore i truly love the long range direct fire support role . But I am quite unsure how viable it is in this game.

I've yet to see a streamer walking backwards during an engagement. They all seem to close into the enemy all the time...

But , even if one is using maneuvering to keep some distance, I am still unsure if long range weapons are a good option. The viewing distance in this game allows to engage with medium lasers, as soon as you establish visual contact. And medium lasers are more effective than most other weapons. Maybe I will have to fiddle with the global viewing engage, but I am unsure if this breaks the scripted missions....

 

[spacemoose]

My fav weapons in BT are the large lasers, ppc, gauss and AC5. therefore i truly love the long range direct fire support role . But I am quite unsure how viable it is in this game.

I think the fire support role is very viable--just not for an entire lance. I agree with the others that from watching streams, you probably want two high alpha ML/SRM boats, and an LRMBoat for 3 of your mechs. The fourth? I'd go sniper, like you mention, but I think the 4th will be the *best* mech I have left, optimized for its hardpoints--regardless of what that role ends up being.

 

[mohanimus]

Unless the game has changed significantly from the beta, scout, 2 snipers and a tank works fine. Send the tank in to force enemy mechs to give their backs to your snipers.

That said different mission types seem to favor different play styles so I for one will try to keep a range of different options in my mech bays.

 

[Harmattan Assassin]

Plan to use the same tactics I used back in tabletop (made even easier with the new skills they added here).

2 Brawlers (short to medium range engagements)
1 Direct Fire Sniper (long range, but with skills to reduce minimum ranges can be used up close if needed)
1 Long Range Indirect Fire Support (but with skills to reduce minimum ranges can be used up close if needed).

Get the heaviest mechs possible as soon as possible, use Bulwark on all but one (Evasion on that one). Bulwark basically doubles your hit points (or another way to look at it is that it gives the same advantage as inflicting a 50% miss chance on the enemy - that's 10 chevrons of evasion). One brawler serves as the anchor, the other can move around the anchor as needed (evasion). The sniper can adjust to protect flanks and be used for flanking. If a brawler become too heavily injured, it can pull back and the sniper can move up to take its place. Towards the end of the scenario/match the Long Range fire support mech can move up for melee since it will likely have the best armor at that point. All of my mechs can hold their own at close range, while filling their other assigned roles.

I refuse to do it, but I suspect that the meta for PVP will be:
1 medium mech for spotting
3 JJ LRM boats

Then perma knockdown win the match by killing the enemy pilots from all the knockdowns.

They really do need to reduce stability damage (and/or allow pilots to resist injuries somehow). Right now it is just too easy to kill an enemy pilot without having to kill their mech.

 

[Bodha]

The biggest problem is bracing. You have to give the enemy something to do other than brace or you are going to have to go the breaching shot route. The second biggest problem is spotting disetance vs max range. Best solution is a forward spotter with slock. Since that mech will likely be the one getting damaged best to rotate the role by having at least 2 slock pilots and swap off at some point.

If/when I go to a sniping lance build it will be breaching shot and slock heavy. Each mech will have one ppc or ac5 and the remainder of the weapons will be mid to short range. The goal would be to snipe as long as I can keep the range open, but also be able to fight in close if needed. The reality is some maps will make long range fighting difficult at best. That said, 4 ppc or ac5 all with breaching shot would be highly effective at knocking down mechs which would otherwise have cover or guarded. I know the current weapon balance favors ac5 over ppc, but some of the best mechs for this kind of build are not gifted with ballistic hardpoints(grasshopper...). If you wanted to go crazy a bit run 2 of your sniping mechs with ppc/ac5 and an lrm. You might as well use that multishot at range sometimes, plus lrms can crit seek for you.