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Smoke and Mirrors supply system (No step back)

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Arheo said:
1. Demand based usage was actually something we had for a long time. It was awful for the player, though. Try keeping track of your truck usage when it spikes based on location, passive demand, offensives, defensives, et al. It was impossible to plan for.
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Thanks @Arheo to share us part of internal development
On that topic, players of my mod (and probably lot of other mods aiming for historical / challenging experience) would probably love a system of demand based usage.
Since you had the code for it in the internal previous builds, is it possible to give us the option to get that system trough modding?

I realy get why such a system is aweful for the average player, but for our non-negligeible niche of historical LARPers, it is the other way around

On that subject, we'd realy like to get trucks from supply hubs realy use fuel and manpower too, and I'm happy that you might reconsider that, at least for modders.


Thanks again for the great work!
 
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Novat said:
It's just smoke and mirrors. It took me a few minutes to see past the façade. snip

As you can see in the screenshot provided. It's just odd that you can support the entire eastern front with fewer than 1000 trucks. When in reality, Germany fielded tens of thousands of trucks throughout the war while at the same time heavily relying on horse transports. snip
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No it's not "odd." You are taking these numbers literally, when clearly they aren't. 1 "rifle" isn't 1 rifle in the game, it's (at least) 10. That's why a Soviet Rifle Division, for example, which had about 6000-8000 rifles or more in real life, needs only 900 "rifles" in this game system. The numbers for certain types of equipments and deployments are symbolic, and representative, not actual and literal.
 
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DaveyDave said:
No it's not "odd." You are taking these numbers literally, when clearly they aren't. 1 "rifle" isn't 1 rifle in the game, it's (at least) 10. That's why a Soviet Rifle Division, for example, which had about 6000-8000 rifles or more in real life, needs only 900 "rifles" in this game system. The numbers for certain types of equipments and deployments are symbolic, and representative, not actual and literal.
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Sure, but this doesn't explain why the number of trucks used to supply troops doesn't vary with the amount of troops they're supplying...
 
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DuoDex said:
Sure, but this doesn't explain why the number of trucks used to supply troops doesn't vary with the amount of troops they're supplying...
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Because they are not actually supplying troops, they are supplying everything they can find within certain range of supply hub. If troops happen to be in that range - they get some, if not...
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
Because they are not actually supplying troops, they are supplying everything they can find within certain range of supply hub. If troops happen to be in that range - they get some, if not...
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And again we run into problems with this system: 100 trucks used to fully supply 1 division or 20. This is not realistic, even at different HOI4 equipment scale, and your argument is based on the idea that it's desirable for there to be trucks sitting around doing nothing for some reason.
 
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DuoDex said:
And again we run into problems with this system: 100 trucks used to fully supply 1 division or 20. This is not realistic, even at different HOI4 equipment scale, and your argument is based on the idea that it's desirable for there to be trucks sitting around doing nothing for some reason.
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What about trucks out of commission for maintenance?
 
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DuoDex said:
And again we run into problems with this system: 100 trucks used to fully supply 1 division or 20. This is not realistic, even at different HOI4 equipment scale, and your argument is based on the idea that it's desirable for there to be trucks sitting around doing nothing for some reason.
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My argument is based solely on dev posts explaining how system works, like this one:
Arheo said:
1. Demand based usage was actually something we had for a long time. It was awful for the player, though. Try keeping track of your truck usage when it spikes based on location, passive demand, offensives, defensives, et al. It was impossible to plan for.
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I do find this pretty unintuitive, though: not transport increase after altering sea route is something you can "plan for" easier than land warfare.
 
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They take so many shortcuts. Like bombers are teleported to their destination. You can have a wall of interceptiors between London and Berlin, but since the bombers just teleports to its target they can not be intercepted by any interceptors on the route to the target.
They do stuff like that all over the game. Annoying.
 
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Spookyashell said:
They take so many shortcuts. Like bombers are teleported to their destination. You can have a wall of interceptiors between London and Berlin, but since the bombers just teleports to its target they can not be intercepted by any interceptors on the route to the target.
They do stuff like that all over the game. Annoying.
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Well, in Hoi2 and Hoi3 your bombers could get intercepted, and or even damaged or destroyed, when redeploying.
 
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Dev diaries made it clear that being below 100% supply was normal, but most players don't yet realise. Maybe the current "red" supply threshold (50%?) could be refactored to 100%, and anything over that would apply the breakthrough modifier as a bonus ("well supplied"), instead of giving penalties which makes the player think they did something wrong ("low supply").

So the current situation where I have lets say 80% supply and suffer 15% breakthrough penalty, would instead become 160% supply and I'd instead get a 30% breakthrough bonus for being well supplied (these numbers are not accurate obvs). The incentive on the player is the same (to improve supply) but it's a lot less irksome presentation.

Overall I really like the new supply system. The gameplay around cutting railway lines and capturing supply hubs is fun and feels historical.

The issues with Air Supply, and the exploit of spamming of level 1 naval ports, have been mentioned and I'm confident they'll get addressed.
 
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DuoDex said:
Sure, but this doesn't explain why the number of trucks used to supply troops doesn't vary with the amount of troops they're supplying...
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Nor was it an attempt to explain that. The number of trains running to the supply hub varies based on the number of supply points demanded in the state, up to the maximum capacity of the chokepoints. And, guess what? 1 "train" in the game does not equal 1 train in real life.
 
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Yes, the low supply icon should probably be made more neutral, and perhaps the tooltip could be clear about how during peacetime, supply deficits are not an issue.
 
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DaveyDave said:
Nor was it an attempt to explain that. The number of trains running to the supply hub varies based on the number of supply points demanded in the state, up to the maximum capacity of the chokepoints. And, guess what? 1 "train" in the game does not equal 1 train in real life.
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As it should. My problem is that the number of trucks running from the supply hub to each division demanding supply does not vary with the number of supply points demanded by that division, up to the maximum level of supply available in that province. I don't care that 1 "truck" does not equal 1 truck in real life.
 
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DuoDex said:
As it should. My problem is that the number of trucks running from the supply hub to each division demanding supply does not vary with the number of supply points demanded by that division, up to the maximum level of supply available in that province. I don't care that 1 "truck" does not equal 1 truck in real life.
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I don't have a problem with the design choice made here, where supply hubs have a fixed motorization level. The variance is with the trains and convoys. This was already explained by the devs.
 
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DaveyDave said:
I don't have a problem with the design choice made here, where supply hubs have a fixed motorization level. The variance is with the trains and convoys. This was already explained by the devs.
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I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally find it very silly that providing 0.1 supply uses 100 motorized and providing 10 supply also uses 100 motorized.
 
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DuoDex said:
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally find it very silly that providing 0.1 supply uses 100 motorized and providing 10 supply also uses 100 motorized.
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As the devs said, if the variance was extended to the trucks used at the hub, campaigns became unmanageable.
 
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