Small historical-inspired changes to improve the HRE significantly

[circadianwolf]

With the release of Emperor, there have been numerous threads about the ease with which countries now join the HRE and its impact on gameplay (in particular, the rapid passing of Imperial reforms). Doubtless this will be tweaked in a patch not too far away, but I think rather than just changing the Imperial Authority gained from countries joining the HRE or making Italians who leave the HRE during Shadow Kingdom more reluctant to rejoin (both of which should probably happen), a few more small changes based on the historical dynamics of the HRE would improve the situation significantly.

As much as Emperor adds to the HRE, the dynamics of the Empire are still far from historical. In general the boundaries of the HRE did not change very much, either by growing or contracting, with the exception of Italy throwing off the Emperor's influence (as represented by the Shadow Kingdom). This factors into four broad dynamics, and accompanying mechanical suggestions to represent them:

• Countries should be reluctant to join the HRE. Beyond the game issues (which could theoretically be solved by e.g. requiring more Imperial Authority to pass reforms while still allowing countries to frequently join the HRE), joining the HRE as an independent country is making that country into a nominal vassal and giving up its sovereignty. This is not something that should be done lightly, and should carry a negative effect mechanically to represent this. In addition, perhaps HRE membership in general should carry a small penalty for those who are not the Emperor at the start of the game - even if the Emperor's overlordship is mostly theoretical, it was something everyone was cognizant of.
  • Suggestion: Joining the HRE should cause an immediate Prestige hit - possibly even a Stability hit or a timed Diplomatic Reputation debuff - to represent the impact of signing over a country's (nominal) independence. This would be on top of changes to the AI (since I believe the AI mostly does not actually weigh such actions on the basis of their mechanical consequences, but according to parallel weighting that reflects these modifiers).
  • Additional Suggestion: HRE Princes that are not the Emperor should perhaps start with a small negative Prestige modifier to represent their nominal subject status.
    
    
• Countries in the HRE should be reluctant to add provinces to the Empire, even if they are the Emperor. Historically, HRE princes with possessions outside the Empire, like the Hohenzollerns of Brandenburg and even the Hapsburgs, did not place them under Imperial administration. The prestige and political independence of holding titles outside the Empire was too valuable to give up. This is one of the other reasons the boundaries of the HRE did not really expand.
  • Suggestion: Already, adding provinces to the Empire does not give immediate benefit (even for the Emperor, since Imperial Authority is now only gained from countries joining). Simply making it so the AI does not add land to the Empire except when joining the Empire would be enough for this I imagine.
    
    
• Countries outside the HRE should benefit from holding HRE land. Historically, while HRE princes valued holding land outside the HRE, there was also value for non-HRE rulers to hold small amounts of land within the HRE, as it gave those rulers a seat in the Imperial Diet and an Imperial Circle and thus a way of influencing internal HRE politics. This is the case for Denmark's control over Holstein in 1444, as well as Sweden's control of Western Pommerania after the Thirty Years' War (the League War in game).
  • Suggestion: Add space on the HRE UI for "Sovereign Princes" (or some better term) which identifies non-HRE countries that hold HRE land, and let them vote in Imperial Incidents. This won't generally impact how incidents actually play out, but it gives representation to their votes, and the UI change would be useful information.
    
    
• Removing provinces from the HRE should be difficult. Historically, the boundaries of the HRE were a mix of theoretical/nominal (what in game terms we would understand as claims, or de jure status in CK2) and actual Imperial involvement in the governing bureaucracy (which seems to be what a province's "HRE status" represents in game). Even if the Imperial administration was kicked out, a territory's status as part of the HRE would not be forgotten for a long time - longer than the time to core a province, which is what it takes to remove a province from the HRE and thus the limit of the Imperial Ban CB once it is available. (Burgundy can even do this right away, though it doesn't give them much benefit given the mechanics of the Inheritance.) Giving a small benefit to non-HRE countries holding HRE land is a carrot, but it will still often be more trouble than it's worth to hold HRE land, and the Emperor should have more than the few years (or less) it takes to core a province to get it back.
  • Suggestion: What we want is essentially an 'HRE claim' on a province that gives an Emperor a CB for retrieving the province when a province is removed from the Empire. The claims system won't work for that, of course, but given that the HRE status on a province doesn't mechanically do much beyond allow for the Imperial Ban CB, simply adding a timer that prevents the province from being removed until after holding it as a core for some amount of years (20? 50?) would be sufficient instead. This would encourage non-HRE countries holding Imperial land and not powerful enough to fend off the Emperor to make friends with the Emperor for at least this longer duration, which seems appropriate. (I assume AI-wise, the AI already prioritizes improving relations with powerful countries that have CBs against them, so this wouldn't require much if any AI modification.)

Thanks for reading.