Slower the acquisition of National Ideas

[alertiu5]

As it is now, a national idea for 3 ideas is too fast - you can get ambitions that make sense in a historical way for 1750s+ in like 1530s instead.

I'd suggest either one of those solutions:
1) Remove attachment of progress in national Ideas (tradition -> ambition) to ideas you pick for monarch points and instead tie first ones to year ingame. Like you got 7 ideas for 380 years, you just receive new NI each ~50 years. This way you will always get Liberte, egalite at 1780s (1444 + 7*50 = 1794 tho), oprichnina at 1560s etc. At least for Russia that would fit mostly perfectly.

2) Less constraining proposal: a NI shall be received each 7 MP ideas - you fill an MP idea group - you get a national idea, roughly.

 

[grommile]

There are at least two solutions to this problem that I don't particularly acknowledge as a problem which I think would be far better than the one you propose:

• Remove national ideas completely. (I'd let traditions stay... maybe.)
  
• Revamp the NI sets to relate to the period over which a country of the expected tech group for a certain NI set would accumulate ideas.

 

[Jomini]

Let's go with no. National ideas are a big part of what makes different runs interesting. The longer it takes for your and your opponents to get their NIs filled out, the less you are fighting "France" and the more you are fighting Random Western Blob. Likewise, the AI does terrible without its NIs, the longer the AI takes to get the efficiency improvements from NI, the longer I can pound them at a larger relative advantage.

 

[Monty_Droppings]

Poor RoTW.

 

[alertiu5]

Poor RoTW.

I admit I had in mind mostly european ideas and their timing. The whole idea arose in my mind not because of gameplay, but because of historical plausibility of those ideas. If they were something else, and last idea was linked with something what happened in 16th century for europeans, I wouldn't even made this thread. Just as far as I can see, last ideas are usually 18th or even early 19th century stuff from real world history, thus this suggestion.

Example : liberte idea as France in 1550 while still feudal monarchy. What kind of sense does it make?

 

[Monty_Droppings]

I admit I had in mind mostly european ideas and their timing. The whole idea arose in my mind not because of gameplay, but because of historical plausibility of those ideas. If they were something else, and last idea was linked with something what happened in 16th century for europeans, I wouldn't even made this thread. Just as far as I can see, last ideas are usually 18th or even early 19th century stuff from real world history, thus this suggestion.

Example : liberte idea as France in 1550 while still feudal monarchy. What kind of sense does it make?

You have the pragmatic sanction triggering in 1490 sometimes and Janissary Decadence triggering in 1500. This game can be a bit wonky sometimes.

 

[Sarmatian]

Example : liberte idea as France in 1550 while still feudal monarchy. What kind of sense does it make?

Well, France could just as well be a feudal monarchy in 1812. That doesn't make much more sense.

 

[Krajzen]

Bad idea:

1) Firstly, national ideas are fun to get so limiting them too much is sad
2) As people said before, it would screw RoTW
3) What's wrong with them being usually fully unlocked halfway through game time? This allows you on full use of their bonuses in the second half. Especially for RoTW nations which can finish NIs even later, at like 2/3th of a game.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

As it is now, a national idea for 3 ideas is too fast - you can get ambitions that make sense in a historical way for 1750s+ in like 1530s instead.

I'd suggest either one of those solutions:
1) Remove attachment of progress in national Ideas (tradition -> ambition) to ideas you pick for monarch points and instead tie first ones to year ingame. Like you got 7 ideas for 380 years, you just receive new NI each ~50 years. This way you will always get Liberte, egalite at 1780s (1444 + 7*50 = 1794 tho), oprichnina at 1560s etc. At least for Russia that would fit mostly perfectly.

2) Less constraining proposal: a NI shall be received each 7 MP ideas - you fill an MP idea group - you get a national idea, roughly.

National Ideas are something which to me add some of the best flavour to how a nation might play, strong trade ideas help develop a desire to play as a trading nation, strong military ideas let a nation become more conquest heavy, they are an important part of the game and for the most part try to resemble historical development of ideas and traditions, while I think some need to be readressed a little bit they should remain quite easy to unlock, I want them to help guide a nation to play as the culture should suggest.