Slaves Taxation & Scarcity. Economics!

[IsaacCAT]

Treasury comes from taxes + commerce + tributes.

• Taxes: come from Freeman and slaves, but mostly from slaves. The base tax is influenced by the output efficiency but because slaves are always considered 100.00% happiness when calculating output, you end up with the simple formulae more slaves more taxes.
• Commerce comes from trade routes selling or buying goods produced by... slaves. You need the trade routes generated by Citizens and Nobles, but they are void without a surplus of goods to trade.
• Tributes are not significant.

Conclusion: the number of slaves are the base of the economy. Something that is coherent with history but for the game I would like something to play. Thus I propose the following:

Slaves should come mainly from conquest (at the end of the Roman Empire the price of slaves increased as they became scarce), thus the program shall only grow freeman, citizen or noble POPS in our settlements/cities for the allowed cultures. Then, the player could choose to increase its slave population, embrace freedom or a mix of both:

1. The player that wishes so can do the following to increase its POP slaves:
   1. Start wars for slaving purposes
   2. Enact laws promoting the demotion to slaves (like slave Treatment Sanctions or new ones, like the prohibition of freeing slaves law)
   3. Slave a whole culture, denying its civic rights, then every growing POP of that culture will be a slave
   4. Build slave estates that shall negate the slave promotion on the settlement by default (the slave promotion button shall disappear, only this building will allow it)
2. The player that wishes so can have a viable economy with less slaves by:
   1. Build mines and farming settlements to decrease the slaves needed for local surplus
   2. Build Tax offices in cities that will tax more efficiently Freeman
   3. Enact laws to get a tax on Citizens and Nobles (new)

The player following the heavy slaved strategy will have an advantage to the other player, except that SPARTACUS shall come back and slave rebellions shall be a thing again, as noticed in @Herennius post. This time, not by a random event but something predictable:

• Starting in a province with X slaves under Y happiness will transform all slave POPS in a militia. The player will have to beat them, loosing the slave POPS as they are killed to quell the rebellion. The slaves will not conquer territories nor siege towns but If they are not put down, a timer on other provinces will set off more slave POPS to militia. At the end, the player will loose all slave POPs if nothing is done.

On the other hand, the mixed economy allows for a less rebellious alternative and also a possible evolution in the middle/end game for the player.

To promote this evolution from a slave economy to a more trade based economy, besides the lower risk of SPARTACUS rebellions, the game shall increase the scarcity of slaves at the middle/end game by favoring the promotion of slaves to freeman. This can be done by the civilization value of the territory and/or the civic advances. This would also decrease inflation at the end of the game.

EDIT: minor corrections

 

[Bovrick]

I'm not following what the proposal is here. Is it just to bring back Slave rebellions that can't really happen any more with the Unrest/Political Weight updates?

 

[IsaacCAT]

I'm not following what the proposal is here. Is it just to bring back Slave rebellions that can't really happen any more with the Unrest/Political Weight updates?

Not only, proposal is about making slaves more scarce (not growing unless slaved culture, and promoting slaves to freeman).

The objective is to nudge the player to conquest for slaves and risk rebellions or to develop its country to have a viable economy with less slaves.

 

[IsaacCAT]

The treshold for slave rebellions shall be quantity and overpopulation.

• One or two unhappy slaves does not make the cut. I would say at least 20 slaves POPs at the province level (10 cohorts)
• There shall be a trigger as well. Because happiness is not a thing with slaves, overpopulation for more than three months in a city or settlements with at least 10 slaves shall do it.

Overpopulation happens by organic grow and from slaves coming through raids (conquest)

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Some good Suggestions, but it's important to:
- implement them only in Rome and similar nations. Other cultures had different attitudes to slaves and other lower classes (look up @FryFroFella 's thread for more.)

not growing unless slaved culture

Waht about Sparta? Spartans AND Helots are both represented as Lacedaemonian culture POPs

 

[IsaacCAT]

Some good Suggestions, but it's important to:
- implement them only in Rome and similar nations. Other cultures had different attitudes to slaves and other lower classes (look up @FryFroFella 's thread for more.)


Waht about Sparta? Spartans AND Helots are both represented as Lacedaemonian culture POPs

Spectacular post from @FryFroFella, thank you @Ketchup & friends for pointing it out.

The starting historically class distribution for each country or desired initial pop type ratio for cities and settlements shall be respected in game set up for each nation/culture. Then each culture can have different modifiers to the slave speed promotion and capture of slaves at war. For example:

• Rome will have more slave capturing efficiency and less speed promotion of slaves
• Eastern nations will capture less slaves when raiding territories and their speed promotion to freeman will be faster
• Sparta, the slave to freeman speed promotion will be almost zero at the beginning of the game and exceptionally slaves could grow from the spartan culture.
• Tribes shall have slave to tribesman speed promotion bonus (if they do not have it already).

However, at the end of the game I would like all nations to converge on the slave speed promotion rate. Even Spartans should catch up with the eastern or non slave culture nations that start much higher on slave speed promotion rate. On the other hand, the slave capturing efficiency for nations shall be decided by the player from the starting historical point by means of laws and promoting generals with the slave efficiency trait.

EDIT: modified post adding desired initial pop type ratio and class promotion speed value concepts.

Example (from Imperator Wiki) that is not updated for 1.5.3:

• Settlements: in monarchies and republics the base ratio is 100% slaves, in tribal nations is 50% tribesmen and 50% slaves.
  • Suggestion: In some eastern nations, base ratio shall be 50% freeman and 50% slaves.
• Cities: the base ratio in monarchies is 35% citizens, 35% freemen, 0% tribesmen, 30% slaves; in republics is 34% citizens, 39% freemen, 0% tribesmen, 27% slaves; in tribal nations is 33% citizens, 33% freemen, 4% tribesmen, 30% slaves.
  • Suggestion: in some eastern nations, base ratio shall be 15% nobles, 35% citizens, 0% tribesman, 35% freemen, 15% slaves.

At the middle and end game, promotion speed shall make promotions faster than demotions. For example:

Roman city with 25 nobles, 35 citizens, 0 freemen, 35 tribesmen and 10 slaves shall demote nobles to slaves more slowly than a roman city will promote slaves to nobles with 20 nobles, 35 citizens, 0 freemen, 35 tribesmen, and 20 slaves.