• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

ShaTiK

First Lieutenant
47 Badges
Aug 24, 2010
286
109
  • Majesty 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Given how much POP count means now in 2.2 slavers became a very viable strategy. Either with heavy use of galactic slave market or with conquest/barbaric despoilers you could have a very nice slaver empire. And slaves have zero CG consumption, and reduced housing and amenities usage, which is logical and good. Plus, you actually have a nice issue with slaves - they are usually very unhappy, and while having very low impact on planetary stability, they quite often outnumber your own species on a planet, so you are kinda forced to run some sort of stability-compensation strategy - in form of noble elites, police state etc. And this is good - this make a nice rounded play style, both in terms of gameplay mechanics and in term of RP. It requires a lot of micro, sadly. And with the current growth mechanics you are basically forced to have population control enabled for every enslaved species, because you always need your own species to grow - they are specialists that make very useful stuff. Slaves are here to do the basic jobs - so you can't afford a slave to take up growth slot. So it would be nice to have multiple species able to grow at once, but that's only the minor issue with slaves that I found (at least you could always go and get some more slaves, which you usually do).
But a major issue I found with slaves - they consume the same amount of food as masters. Which kinda makes no sense - surely they have access only to the most basic of foods, compared to masters. But it's not a problem on it's own - it's a problem when we are talking about habitability modifier. Usually the most punishing thing about low habitability is high CG and amenities usage, and while food is equally affected, it's usually the former two that pose a problem. When we are talking about slaves though - we suddenly find ourselves with a problem of food, of all things. Since slaves do not require CG (I'm talking about 'standard' slavery, when all slaves are workers and live under 'basic subsistence' standards) and have lowered amenities usage it's food modifier that hurts the most. But that's the thing about slaves - you want them as your low-class workforce. And you can't afford to be picky about their preferred habitability, more often then not you won't have neighbors of the same habitability preference as your own. You could genetically modify them (which I did), but that is: a)a high-end technology; b)take quite some time to actually modify; c)you would have to do that for every species (and thing about true slaver run - you would end up having quite a few different species as slaves); d)you would have to repeat modification process every so often since you would capture more of them.
You could go without genetic modification, of course, but the penalty is too severe - you end up having 50% more food upkeep for every slave (with wrong habitability). I had to switch to 'strict rationing' at one point while trying to run a tall-ish slaver empire, since I haven't taken into account the fact that a single slave POP have the same food upkeep as a Ruler POP.
So, what I suggest is very simple - have different POPs have different food upkeep, the same it is now with CG. They could be fixed or they could be made into the similar 'living standards' species rights mechanics, since right now food consumption is regulated by empire-wide food policy.
 

Blurb

Major
36 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
700
70
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Impire
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
Let me to know if I got this right:
You want pop food consumption to depend on stratum, where pops in higher strata consume more food and inversely that pops in lower strata consume less food.
As for your ingame troubles, consider building more farms.
 

ShaTiK

First Lieutenant
47 Badges
Aug 24, 2010
286
109
  • Majesty 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Let me to know if I got this right:
You want pop food consumption to depend on stratum, where pops in higher strata consume more food and inversely that pops in lower strata consume less food.
As for your ingame troubles, consider building more farms.
Yes, that's the idea.
As for the game - well, eventually I just gene-modded the slaves, plus had to switch from 'tall-ish' build to wide one, colonizing a bunch of planets only to get raw resources. Which would've happened eventually, tall build is not that good right now. It's better to have around 15 high quality planets with lots of population and at least 2 research worlds to compensate for empire sprawl, form what I gathered during my 5 games in 2.2.
But that's beside the point, my point was about slaves consuming the same amount of food as anyone else, which I found a bit wrong
 

Jmes Snowscoran

First Lieutenant
44 Badges
May 27, 2010
245
49
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Knights of Honor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Any slaver having food issues clearly haven't discovered the joys of livestock yet.

I understand where OP is coming from, but 0 CG consumption, lowered housing needs and bonus production is a good enough abstraction for the misery slaves live in. They do have caloric needs that must be met if you don't want them to die off. The alternative is forced labour purge...
 

Peter Ebbesen

the Conqueror
61 Badges
Mar 3, 2001
16.914
4.886
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
Given that how much food you need to consume to stay alive to do a given amount of work is the same regardless of whether you are a slave or not, I see no reason for slaves to consume less food than free workers on basic living standards.

Nobody ever turned a profit by starving their slaves.
 

ShaTiK

First Lieutenant
47 Badges
Aug 24, 2010
286
109
  • Majesty 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Given that how much food you need to consume to stay alive to do a given amount of work is the same regardless of whether you are a slave or not, I see no reason for slaves to consume less food than free workers on basic living standards.

Nobody ever turned a profit by starving their slaves.
Since we are kinda invoking IRL now - slave labor rarely turns a profit when compared to even terribly-paid job, when you take loss of production due to inefficiency into account. Even very labor-intensive jobs are.. Well, I don't have figures, but I think paid workers are always more efficient. At least you could threaten paid worker with fines and stuff, the only thing you could do to a slave is to beat him up. Which is even more counter-productive and in long-term creates even more problems. You could kill him - but that just a direct monetary loss altogether. Oh Stellaris, game about genocide and slavery..
And my idea is more about the variety and quality of food available to slave vs even the lowest of the privileged population. And to represent it via number, some games do that - Tropico comes to mind, when for simplicity sake more food per meal=higher quality meal. Other games do that too - you need more ingredients and more work to make better meals. And we could all agree that CEO or head of noble house would demand much more food in these regards.