Slavery boni vs. happiness boni

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Tyro

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Which comes out on top with/without bonuses that are non-trivial to obtain, and how should I know which to use in a given situation? Does high Stability giving bonus production make slavery out and out better than Shared Burden or Utopian Ideal (or Stratified for rulers / Academic Privilege for rulers & specialists)?
 

Tyro

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Why not both? Give your slaves social welfare!
Slaves aren't affected positively by Happiness except indirectly through Stability. I'm hoping someone's crunched the numbers to determine the optimal uses of high-Stability slavery vs high-happiness non-slavery.

I prefer to give my slaves Decent Conditions unless I have a lot of unemployed or a lot of unrest.
 

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Slaves aren't affected positively by Happiness except indirectly through Stability. I'm hoping someone's crunched the numbers to determine the optimal uses of high-Stability slavery vs high-happiness non-slavery.

I prefer to give my slaves Decent Conditions unless I have a lot of unemployed or a lot of unrest.
I thought everybody is only effected by happiness through stability?
 

Wolfgang I

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Having 100 stability together with slavery does not seem to be that much of a problem at least with slaver guilds.
It might be more difficult with species wide slavery until you get nerve stapling. But bio-ascension and effective slavery go hand in hand anyway imo.
 

Xaelyn

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Which comes out on top with/without bonuses that are non-trivial to obtain, and how should I know which to use in a given situation? Does high Stability giving bonus production make slavery out and out better than Shared Burden or Utopian Ideal (or Stratified for rulers / Academic Privilege for rulers & specialists)?

As it stands slavers aren't actually particularly stable, because there are hard limits on how much or little a given pops political power can affect happiness and stability that aren't actually mentioned anywhere in the game.

Specifically, a happy pops effective political power maxes out at 200% whilst and unhappy pops bottoms out at 50%, even if the tooltips on living standards and such would seem to indicate otherwise. It doesn't matter how stratified your society is, a given ruler pop will only ever count for a maximum of 4 times as much as the lowest of your slaves in happiness and stability calculations.

All that said, my very limited testing seemed to show that raw resource wise slaves are more productive than free and somewhat happy workers on a thusly slightly more stable planet, and I doubt the tiny extra specialist production from higher stability makes up for having to provide your workers consumer goods.

If you are properly specializing your planets it probably tilts even more in favor of slavery, since your low slave percentage city worlds should be very happy and stable and your high slave rural worlds should have higher output than a 'free' worker rural world despite the lower stability.

Aristocratic Elite is also very strong and has nice synergy with slavery, though it doesn't require it.

EDIT: I should qualify that the second half of this post applies primarily to xeno-slavery (mostly syncretics, in my case), because slaver guilds is trash and pretty much impossible to beneficially utilize.
 
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Tyro

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And then you add thrall worlds and it all comes together. Thanks.

What about psionic ascension (telepaths to suppress crime, easy to keep spiritualists happy & make more spiritualists via temples) vs bio ascension (nerve stapling)?

I don't like Slaver Guilds because it gets in the way of slave specialization, though if you aren't going for bio ascension & make a generalist species I suppose it could work.
 

Xaelyn

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And then you add thrall worlds and it all comes together. Thanks.

I'm not entirely sold on thrall worlds as they stand tbh. I spammed the shit out of them in my slaver game at first (made pretty much every planet that was destined to be rural into one), and ended up sorely disappointed. Their only real benefit is the 50% growth bonus, but that is more or less countered by the inability to build robots factories or gene/cyto clinics there.

They also come with a whole slew of other downsides, including the inability to build the mineral or energy boost building (so there only real use is as agriworlds), the inabilty to build other useful buildings, and the inability to grow your primary species (maybe not a problem if your running slaver guilds, I'm not sure).
I could see them maybe being useful temporarily if you you don't go syncretic and have to acquire slaves later and want to speed up their growth so they can catch up with your empires need for workers, though the rather rather silly pop growth selection already does that for you.

Can anyone tell me how slaver guilds interacts with thrall worlds?

What about psionic ascension (telepaths to suppress crime, easy to keep spiritualists happy & make more spiritualists via temples) vs bio ascension (nerve stapling)?

Crime is pretty well irrelevant as it stands, at worst you might need 1 precinct on the largest of rural worlds to keep it down. The authoritarian and xenophobe factions are super easy to please, and they go hand in hand with slavery, so theres no reason to go psionic and spiritualist for faction pleasing reasons.

Bio ascension also goes hand in hand with xeno-slavery, and whilst nerve stapling still suffers from the lying political power problem, I believe they are treated as having 50% happiness so should result in higher planetary happiness and stability. I can't say for certain as the project to nerve-staple my slaves is still a few years from completion.

I don't like Slaver Guilds because it gets in the way of slave specialization, though if you aren't going for bio ascension & make a generalist species I suppose it could work.

It also gets in the way of planet specialisation, since rural worlds will end up with a lot of 'free' workers that are less productive and more costly than their enslaved counterparts, and city worlds will end up with a lot of surplus slaves. With xeno-slavery that can be fixed with resettlement or prevented with selective species growth, but afaik slaver guilds locks you into that 40% ratio with no recourse.
 

Fisk

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What buildings *can* you build on a Thrall World?
  • +8 living space called something like "slave shacks"
  • +2 living space, +2 enforcer jobs, don't remember what it's called
  • Hydroponics farm, +2 farmer jobs
  • That +15%/+25% farming output one
  • Stronghold/fortress
  • Military academy
  • The temple given by one of the trader fleets, if you have it
Could be some others, but I don't remember. I have a bunch of thrall worlds in my current game, and stability doesn't seem to be an issue. Then again, I have the +2 rulers from the trader temple for extra happiness (because stratified society gives them +900% political power, so yay).
 

Less2

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First off, Happiness IS stability. The only way happiness affects production is by boosting stability. And slaves boost stability be redirecting political power to the more happy populace, so it's kind of a non-issue (ontop of the fact that Happiness is just weak to begin with currently).

Slaves get -housing, -amenities cost, and 0 CGs required, so that puts them way ahead of anything else except robot slaves who get even more -housing and -amenities. Keep in mind that low habitability multiplies the number of amenities and CGs required, so slave-based societies also effectively ignore habitability for around half of their population.
 

Wolfgang I

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I don't think there is a thesis about what is actually the best.Just roleplay.

Min/maxing is fun to some people.
Early endgame date 5x crisis games or tiny galaxy 5x crisis games were fun to me before 2.2 for example and that required quite a bit of min/maxing.
I would prefer to avoid exploits though which is difficult now because of the market.
 

Xaelyn

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  • +8 living space called something like "slave shacks"
  • +2 living space, +2 enforcer jobs, don't remember what it's called
  • Hydroponics farm, +2 farmer jobs
  • That +15%/+25% farming output one
  • Stronghold/fortress
  • Military academy
  • The temple given by one of the trader fleets, if you have it
Could be some others, but I don't remember. I have a bunch of thrall worlds in my current game, and stability doesn't seem to be an issue. Then again, I have the +2 rulers from the trader temple for extra happiness (because stratified society gives them +900% political power, so yay).

Also the clone vats from engineered evolution.

Per my post higher in the thread, political power actually caps out at +100% for the planets happiness calculation, but the tooltip lies. More ruler pops is still better though.


First off, Happiness IS stability. The only way happiness affects production is by boosting stability. And slaves boost stability be redirecting political power to the more happy populace, so it's kind of a non-issue (ontop of the fact that Happiness is just weak to begin with currently).

Slaves get -housing, -amenities cost, and 0 CGs required, so that puts them way ahead of anything else except robot slaves who get even more -housing and -amenities. Keep in mind that low habitability multiplies the number of amenities and CGs required, so slave-based societies also effectively ignore habitability for around half of their population.

Slaves don't actually boost stability due to the political power caps, but all the other benefits more than make up for it.
 

TheGrouch91

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Also the clone vats from engineered evolution.

Per my post higher in the thread, political power actually caps out at +100% for the planets happiness calculation, but the tooltip lies. More ruler pops is still better though.




Slaves don't actually boost stability due to the political power caps, but all the other benefits more than make up for it.
Do you have a source for the political power cap? That would make stratified society a lot weaker.
 

Less2

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Slaves don't actually boost stability due to the political power caps, but all the other benefits more than make up for it.

Maybe not slaves specifically, but low living standards vs. high living standards work that way such that you effectively pay less CGs to make lower strata pops unhappy that ceases to matter since its balanced out by more happy, more influential high strata. Effectively becoming a "do you want free CGs" button that Egalitarian societies are punished by not being able to use.
 

Less2

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Here’s a question:

Do slave processing facilities affect enslaved clerks at al in terms of output?

Bonus question: Are enslaved synths affected by slave processing facilities?

I tried both last game, but the tool tips were not clear.

Clerks: No. Amenities and trade value are not "resources" in the sense that minerals/energy/motes/unity/research are (anything global across your empire at the top of the screen). Anything that boosts output in general will not boost amenities or trade value, only something that specifically says it boosts one of these two will boost them.

If you look at the production description you can actually see that all "real" resource production jobs have correct tooltips while the "fake" resource production jobs have an extra blank space before their tooltip. Probably a minor error with how job descriptions are generated.

Synths: No. Robots are considered in servitude if you mouse over the slavery icon on their pop, not enslaved. If you click on the pop itself you won't see the production modifier "buildings: +5%" in the breakdown.
 
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