Slavery and Ethics: Smart Sectors in Utopia?

[.NoWay.]

Ok, so with the entire new 'rights and ethics' system coming 6th of April I am planning on a slaver playthrough in the future. However, currently the sectors do not make a difference between the resource being produced or the ethics of the pop. Caste System could solve the resource issue.

But will sectors also take pop ethics into account? Say I got 1 Authoritarian and 1 Egalitarian/Non-Authoritarian pop on the planet in a sector. Will said sector be smart enough to put the Authoritarian pop on a energy/research/special building tile and the egalitarian/non-authoritarian pop on a mineral/food tile? Because the other way around the egalitarian/not-authoritarian pop would still get a hefty happiness penalty due to slavery on his planet resulting in lower resource yields. This in turn could make a caste system only marginal 'better' in terms of resource yield than full slavery.

Even from roleplaying perspective my loyalist authoritarians should be the free people while the 'lesser dissidents' should be working the mines and farms in slavery.

Any word on this yet @Wiz ? Thanx!

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

When you say "chattel slavery" do you mean "caste system?" The difference being "chattel slavery" is a slavery policy that effectively turns an entire alien population into slaves, where as "caste system" is a citizen's rights policy that automatically turns miners and farmers of that race into slaves, while allowing researcher and energy processors the full rights of a citizen. I only ask because these terms are very new, mistakes are easy to make, and what you're describing seems like "caste system."

Anyway, in regards to that, really no word I'm afraid. If they do place the egalitarian on energy production and house him next to an authoritarian whose been enslaved, they'll both have an ethos attraction towards authoritarianism because your government is authoritarian. The energy producer will have an even stronger attraction towards authoritarianism because he shares a planet with slaves but is not one himself. The miner will have a strong attraction to egalitarianism because he's enslaved. And the egalitarian, whether he's on energy or minerals, will suffer happiness penalties because of your empire policies.

Still though, it's nothing adding some defensive troops to the planet won't cure. Boots on the ground to put boots on the neck, that's how you maintain order.

 

[.NoWay.]

When you say "chattel slavery" do you mean "caste system?" The difference being "chattel slavery" is a slavery policy that effectively turns an entire alien population into slaves, where as "caste system" is a citizen's rights policy that automatically turns miners and farmers of that race into slaves, while allowing researcher and energy processors the full rights of a citizen. I only ask because these terms are very new, mistakes are easy to make, and what you're describing seems like "caste system."

Anyway, in regards to that, really no word I'm afraid. If they do place the egalitarian on energy production and house him next to an authoritarian whose been enslaved, they'll both have an ethos attraction towards authoritarianism because your government is authoritarian. The energy producer will have an even stronger attraction towards authoritarianism because he shares a planet with slaves but is not one himself. The miner will have a strong attraction to egalitarianism because he's enslaved. And the egalitarian, whether he's on energy or minerals, will suffer happiness penalties because of your empire policies.

Still though, it's nothing adding some defensive troops to the planet won't cure. Boots on the ground to put boots on the neck, that's how you maintain order.

Thanx for that! I did look them up in the DD's but it seems I still got it wrong ^^ . I've edited the original post so it's clear for everybody.

 

[Brickfix]

As far as I understood it, as well as what I could figure out from the stream, it seems that the "free" pop will have a higher attraction towards authoritarian, while the enslaved pop will tend towards the egalitarian ethic. So over time, it should even out, and there shouldn't even be a reason for the sector AI to check this. While on the other hand, if the egalitarian attraction for the free pop is still higher, there might be some other factors that have to be taken into consideration.

 

[Azhcristokos]

As far as I understood it, as well as what I could figure out from the stream, it seems that the "free" pop will have a higher attraction towards authoritarian, while the enslaved pop will tend towards the egalitarian ethic. So over time, it should even out, and there shouldn't even be a reason for the sector AI to check this. While on the other hand, if the egalitarian attraction for the free pop is still higher, there might be some other factors that have to be taken into consideration.

This makes sense. If you grow up free in a society where slavery is normal, it's normal for you to buy into that logic and view it as the "natural order."

If you grow up a slave, you are probably in favor of abolishing slavery because you get to experience the horror of it firsthand.

If you grow up in a society where slavery is seen as evil, you are likely to view it as morally unacceptable.

 

[The Founder]

Ok, so with the entire new 'rights and ethics' system coming 6th of April I am planning on a slaver playthrough in the future. However, currently the sectors do not make a difference between the resource being produced or the ethics of the pop. Caste System could solve the resource issue.

Caste System puts the Slavery control out of Sector AI hands. If they are on food or minerals, they are enslaved.
If they are enslaved 100% or made Lifestock, I guess the sector will just consider that in it's "who goes where?" calculations. Having those simple differentiations between "No Slavery", "Caste" and "All Slaves" realy takes a load of the Sector AI.

But will sectors also take pop ethics into account? Say I got 1 Authoritarian and 1 Egalitarian/Non-Authoritarian pop on the planet in a sector. Will said sector be smart enough to put the Authoritarian pop on a energy/research/special building tile and the egalitarian/non-authoritarian pop on a mineral/food tile? Because the other way around the egalitarian/not-authoritarian pop would still get a hefty happiness penalty due to slavery on his planet resulting in lower resource yields. This in turn could make a caste system only marginal 'better' in terms of resource yield than full slavery.

With the rework of Ethics (and the reduction to one non-Fanatic pop Ethos), Ethos Pop modifiers get removed entirely. Individualists are no longer better at Producing power on a pop level. They do still ahve unique Techs like the Galactic Stock Exchange.

However enslaving the Egalitarian will serve no direct purpose. He will just produce even more unrest on the planet.
A Egalitarian that does not join the Egalitarian Faction will still have his baseline 50% Happiness, minus slavery perhaps. You can have Individualist pops, without having a large Individualist faction.

If the Egalitarian is Enslaved:
He already has the biggest Danger of being a slave: becomming Egalitarian.

If the Egalitarian is not Enslaved:
He will get considerable Authoritarian Atraction just for having slaves on the planet. If he is converted faster then the new slaved dropping to Egalitarian, you would end up with a more stable planet even.


In either case his happiness will stay at 50%, until he joins a unhappy faction. No more pop modifiers to happiness based on Ethos. That is all done via the Factions (I like to call them "Political Action Comitees") now.

 

[.NoWay.]

Thank you @The Founder! That puts my mind at ease.

I did follow all updates, but I do not have the time atm to study to in great detail. Lucky me Paradox Interactive has such an amazing community!

 

[Azhcristokos]

Thank you @The Founder! That puts my mind at ease.

I did follow all updates, but I do not have the time atm to study to in great detail. Lucky me Paradox Interactive has such an amazing community!

We here are bloodcrazed, often insane and sometimes simply petty, but yes, Paradox games have much more...helpful communities than a lot of other games I've played.

 

[.NoWay.]

We here are bloodcrazed, often insane and sometimes simply petty, but yes, Paradox games have much more...helpful communities than a lot of other games I've played.

You mean 'fanatical purifiers'? Because that's what the Stellaris FB group looks like ^^