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Orimichi

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Hi,

I'm really disappointed because if you pick the slaver guild civic you cannot choose to have world with or without slave. I want to have some specialized world (research, forge, artisan) and it seem not possible because of slave unemployement ... So good bye Ecumenopolis ...

Why slaver guild don't just enslave people if there is work for them?
 

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This really threw me off. I'm presently playing a decadent slaver race (NOT my usual playstyle) where the idea was to enslave as many OTHER races as possible. Now my own species is even partly enslaved? That wasn't entirely obvious from the civic description.

I can't seem to *unenslave* them either, even if they're not 40% of the population and there are jobs available.
 

Jin_Cardassian

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This really threw me off. I'm presently playing a decadent slaver race (NOT my usual playstyle) where the idea was to enslave as many OTHER races as possible. Now my own species is even partly enslaved? That wasn't entirely obvious from the civic description.

I can't seem to *unenslave* them either, even if they're not 40% of the population and there are jobs available.

The way it works is that each new pop will spawn as a slave IF less than 40% of the pops on the planet are currently enslaved. So if you have a sizeable number of alien pops that are fully enslaved, fewer of your primary species that spawn will be slaves.

But yes, unlike with aliens there's no way to free your primary species slaves other than to replace the civic.
 

EvilTom

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This really threw me off. I'm presently playing a decadent slaver race (NOT my usual playstyle) where the idea was to enslave as many OTHER races as possible. Now my own species is even partly enslaved? That wasn't entirely obvious from the civic description.

I can't seem to *unenslave* them either, even if they're not 40% of the population and there are jobs available.

Will changing your civics remove your own slaves? If you're any degree authoritarian or xenophobe you can enslave aliens.
 

Vitruvian Guar

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First you take a civic which makes your society ruled by slavery-lobbist, then you are surprised that decent amount of your population is going to be enslaved no matter what. Slavery is no more free % bonus to production. Get used to it.

Anyway, if you want to have both ecumenopolis and slaver guilds there is a solution: have lots of alien slaves-servants.
 

pryr

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And when i was concerning about how 40% thing will work on practice before release, no one understood me.

First you take a civic which makes your society ruled by slavery-lobbist, then you are surprised that decent amount of your population is going to be enslaved no matter what. Slavery is no more free % bonus to production. Get used to it.

Anyway, if you want to have both ecumenopolis and slaver guilds there is a solution: have lots of alien slaves-servants.
Problem is in distribution of slaves while current planet system is about planet specialization. Slavery lobbists should have brains to understand that they could send additional slaves to mining world, not science word.
 

Vitruvian Guar

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Problem is in distribution of slaves while current planet system is about planet specialization.

As I've already said:
Slavery is no more free % bonus to production. Get used to it.

Slavery lobbists should have brains to understand that they could send additional slaves to mining world, not science word.

[SARCASM]Yeah, because it's definetely how it works in real life. That's why prisoners dilemma is constantly solved for double cooperation and we are having world peace instead of the risks of mutual guaranteed annihilation and reasonable resource management instead of global warming[/SARCASM] ;)

The point is that slavery lobbist couldn't care less for your science worlds. They care for their profits instead of your plan to optimize the economy and they use their brains to increase their income and political power instead of making things easier for you. They won't support the idea of reducing the number of slaves, even on a single planet, even if it's beneficial on the grand scale, because it is a step in a direction of limiting their power. So they will keep enslaving pops everywhere, knowing that the goverment will have intention to send these slaves to the mining worlds anyway.
 

pryr

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As I've already said:
Slavery is no more free % bonus to production. Get used to it.
Still i would like to see more flexible solution rather straight 40% on every planet without any control over it. If 2.2 strongly encourage planet specialization then it should be consistent in that.

The point is that slavery lobbyist couldn't care less for your science worlds. They care for their profits instead of your plan to optimize the economy and they use their brains to increase their income and political power instead of making things easier for you. They won't support the idea of reducing the number of slaves, even on a single planet, even if it's beneficial on the grand scale, because it is a step in a direction of limiting their power. So they will keep enslaving pops everywhere, knowing that the goverment will have intention to send these slaves to the mining worlds anyway.
But i'm government and i care. And as government i should have leverages on them. God-emperor should know how to deal with non-cooperating lobbyists.
 

Vitruvian Guar

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Still i would like to see more flexible solution rather straight 40% on every planet without any control over it. If 2.2 strongly encourage planet specialization then it should be consistent in that.


But i'm government and i care. And as government i should have leverages on them. God-emperor should know how to deal with non-cooperating lobbyists.

You do have it. It's called "Reform Goverment".

Personally, I would be okay with special planetary decision preventing planet from having slaves or something like this with a reasonable initial and mounthly influence cost so that slavers wouldn't be able to have more than a couple of such planets simultaniously.
 

pryr

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You do have it. It's called "Reform Goverment".
[SARCASM]Sorry son, but your school grades are bad. So i will send you to orphanage[/SARCASM]

Personally, I would be okay with special planetary decision preventing planet from having slaves or something like this with a reasonable initial and mounthly influence cost so that slavers wouldn't be able to have more than a couple of such planets simultaniously.
That's good for the start. Just without monthly cost. Controlling evil greedy lobbyists should no be harder that telling to entire planet to not breed.
But personally i would like to see good old caste system (because other solutions only add boring micro), but with adjustments, because slaves are too good now. For example, currently crime is not a problem and even slavers with a lot of unhappy slaves can live without additional enforcers. This could be changed and slavers especially should heavily relay on enforcers.
 
Last edited:

Jin_Cardassian

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[SARCASM]Yeah, because it's definetely how it works in real life. That's why prisoners dilemma is constantly solved for double cooperation and we are having world peace instead of the risks of mutual guaranteed annihilation and reasonable resource management instead of global warming[/SARCASM] ;)

The point is that slavery lobbist couldn't care less for your science worlds. They care for their profits instead of your plan to optimize the economy and they use their brains to increase their income and political power instead of making things easier for you. They won't support the idea of reducing the number of slaves, even on a single planet, even if it's beneficial on the grand scale, because it is a step in a direction of limiting their power. So they will keep enslaving pops everywhere, knowing that the goverment will have intention to send these slaves to the mining worlds anyway.

And it logically follows that when you a have a planet with no profitable employ for slaves next to a planet which does, slavers are not just gonna hold their slaves out of employ for the sake of it. The individual incentive is to sell them on or rent them out. It may simply be that the slave owners remain on the initial planet while they outsource the labor.

There's a reason why slavery flourished in places where the agriculture suited it, like the Deep South, and was less common in ranching country like Texas. Even when both places operated under the same empire. Even when the slave owners themselves still had their homes in Texas.

And when there is no domestic market for slaves, slavers would still produce them for the galactic market. But if they really had as much pull as you say, then they should be putting slave pops up for sale themselves, against your will as the player.

The prisoners' dilemma would be in stopping all this trade, not starting it.

And this is all assuming that slavery is privatized rather than state directed to begin with. Slaver "Guilds" could simply refer to government departments (and is unlikely to be a literal association of medieval craftsmen). Stellaris is usually agnostic on precise economic details for a reason.

The issue here is not that there should be no interesting socio-economic inertia to slavery, but that the inertia that exists is 1) inelegant to manage and 2) uninteresting. You can manually resettle your pops back and forth to in order to separate a slave empire into "plantation worlds" and "mansion worlds". In fact, the game already legitimizes that choice by including Thrall Worlds. So the solution you're saying should be difficult to obtain really isn't. It's just a lot of perfunctory weed-pulling when it should be an automated process stemming from policy choice, which is what pop management in 2.2 aims to be.
 

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I like the way it works early to mid game. It's a fantastic civic for early/mid game. I do agree you probably need to change the civic during the late game especially with the ecumenopolis. I won't swap the civic out until I have a hefty amount of slaves that are not my primary species.
 

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Pick authoritarian, enslave xeno pops, put migration controls on for said xenos, resettle to „slave world“. That‘s the closest i managed to get to what i wanted.
Slave guilds is crap, sadly.
 

Gaussia

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While I am happy they did not entirely remove within-species slavery (which was the original plan), the slavers guild civic does not seem like the best system to handle it. Hopefully they come up with something better in the future.
 

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I don't understand all the hate. It's good if you want slaves at the start of the game without using syncretic species. It's basically a boost to minerals/energy/food and guarantees access to slavery buildings/tech early in game. I agree that it is not a good late game civic but you can easily swap out of them in the late game.
 

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I don't understand all the hate. It's good if you want slaves at the start of the game without using syncretic species. It's basically a boost to minerals/energy/food and guarantees access to slavery buildings/tech early in game. I agree that it is not a good late game civic but you can easily swap out of them in the late game.

It's the inelegant management of slaves that's the issue, and the fact that this headache contrasts with 2.2's mandate to streamline and automate a lot of the nitty gritty of pop management. The fact that it disincents separating planets on a slave/free basis precisely in an update that highlights planet specialization is weird.

A couple ways I can see to improve the situation:

1) Just auto-enslave by job and slavery type, as caste system used to. If a species has chattel slavery, any pop that works a farmer/miner/technician job becomes enslaved, and loses the condition if they move out of the job. Domestic servants are also enslaved if they work as entertainers, or if they become unemployed etc.

A planet with lots of slaveable jobs will have lots of slaves. One which doesn't, won't. If auto-slavery proves to be OP, just adjust the production bonus from Slaver Guilds, or make the ratio of enslaved/free workers less than 1:1, or insert some other drawback.

2) Insert a planetary decision to increase the slave pop spawn ratio or decrease it. You can selectively create more slaves on worker-job worlds, less on specialist job worlds. Insert Energy/Influence/Food cost to balance.