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Orm

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Besides, I think the problem with IKEA was that they used child labour not slaves. The industries where most slaves exist today is in cotton, cocoa and fruit plantations around the world. So if you buy cheap t-shirts and cheap bananas you are probably keeping some poor guy in slavery somewhere along the line.
 

Vulture

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Agreed... But I might have misquoted before... I find child labour as worse as slavery. It should all be taken care of by the government, but that is of course 'Utopia', a mere dream. Those poor countries make too much of a living out of slavery & child labour to forbide it.
 

Emperor of Europe

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Originally posted by Splangy
i dont know if anyones mentioned this but why trade in slave at all? whether you are pc or not you cant hide the truth that slavery sucks when it comes to profit, last time i checked it was like 4d! why waste your time? :confused:

Right, early on slave trade sucks. But later on when the tobacco, sugar and cotton industry starts moving, slave trade can be quite profitable, so I always go for it if I'm playing a colonial nation. Seriously: I'm playing some power-hungry imperialist pig who backstabs allies, goes to war to gain land, and massacres his own population to convert them. Why would I not trade in slave? For moral reasons!? Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Regards,

EoE
 

sunzoner

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Originally posted by VultureGFF
Agreed... But I might have misquoted before... I find child labour as worse as slavery. It should all be taken care of by the government, but that is of course 'Utopia', a mere dream. Those poor countries make too much of a living out of slavery & child labour to forbide it.

Not that I support child labour or slavery, but if you forbid child labour, they and their family will all die of hunger.
Therefore a ban is not the solution, why not send excess food from the us or europe to these poor country so that childern do not have to work?
 

Orm

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Originally posted by sunzoner


Not that I support child labour or slavery, but if you forbid child labour, they and their family will all die of hunger.
Therefore a ban is not the solution, why not send excess food from the us or europe to these poor country so that childern do not have to work?

It's better to burn any excess food to keep the prices up...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Originally posted by beowulf


It's better to burn any excess food to keep the prices up...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Right. That principle can actually be used for any scarce ressource. Low on gas? Burn whatever you got and voila: it's okay again. Need some sweet luuuving from your woman? Burn the witch and everything is honkydory again! It's a universal remedy, because - as we all know - a higher price on a scarce ressource will force all the lazy bastards to produce more of it.

EoE:cool:
 

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actually giving them excess food doesnt fix the problem... old quote "give the man a fish you feed him a day...teach him to fish you feed him for life" or something liewk that ... dont just throw food at the poor and hope they go away..you have to teach them how to improve their lifestyle..you have to bring a sense of stability to their region <which is impossible nowadays with the ruling castes in many countries> you have to fix all their other problems before you can get rid of slavery and child labor...they are the end result but not the source of their nations misery..why is that nation doign what it does? look at the reasons and fix those first..slavery will go away as it has in previous nations...by education and technological developement...but it is something that takes money, time and invested effort and constant vigilance and a willingness to stir the poloitcal mess up...which most nations if not all lack this "willingness" or backbone...our nations like to think we are so superior and noble and wonderful , that we have such well founded principles and values..but when push come sto shove...we do whats poloitcally expedient and whats more comfortable..throw a few dollars at them and ease our conscience and get them out of sight out of mind


sad but true :(

as for game...slave trade would be nice if the provinces slaves were in didnt almost always have negative growth..gotta get cities to 1k to save them...that means even more colonists needed to make them safe then elsewhere..i dont find it profitable in long run...altohugh i will colonize slave provs if i need a base in the area <or as some nations because i want everything in an area > also base values of the provinces the slaves are in are almost always crap as well..generallly its best just stick a trader not colonists in them..cheaper
 

Orm

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Originally posted by Emperor of Europe


Right. That principle can actually be used for any scarce ressource. Low on gas? Burn whatever you got and voila: it's okay again. Need some sweet luuuving from your woman? Burn the witch and everything is honkydory again! It's a universal remedy, because - as we all know - a higher price on a scarce ressource will force all the lazy bastards to produce more of it.

EoE:cool:

Wasn't there a fire in an electronics factory in Korea a while back that caused prices on computer parts to go up? I wonder if there actually was a fire and if there was I wonder if it was actually an accident?
:D :D :D
 

unmerged(4877)

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Originally posted by Emperor of Europe


Right, early on slave trade sucks. But later on when the tobacco, sugar and cotton industry starts moving, slave trade can be quite profitable, so I always go for it if I'm playing a colonial nation. Seriously: I'm playing some power-hungry imperialist pig who backstabs allies, goes to war to gain land, and massacres his own population to convert them. Why would I not trade in slave? For moral reasons!? Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Regards,

EoE

Hooray for some sanity!!!
No wonder you're the Emperor of Europe.
:cool:
 

unmerged(4868)

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Originally posted by dralizaar
actually giving them excess food doesnt fix the problem... old quote "give the man a fish you feed him a day...teach him to fish you feed him for life" or something liewk that ...

I think you misquoted. It goes like this:

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and his boat will get run over by a nuclear submarine."
 

Orm

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Originally posted by Suleyman


I think you misquoted. It goes like this:

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and his boat will get run over by a nuclear submarine."

How does it get 'run over' by a submarine??? :confused:
Shouldn't that be 'run under'?
:D :D :D
 

unmerged(5305)

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The trade in humans as slaves existed and is simulated in the game. Quite rightly - history doesn't change just because modern morality has changed. So it's there, in the game. You now have a choice, the same choice as the historical nations. You can choose not to trade in slaves, whether for moral (slavery is dirty - I'm having nowt to do with it) or economic (slavery doesn't make much for me, I'll find another commodity) reasons. Or you can look on slaves as just another commodity and trade away to your hearts content. The choice is yours.
 
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Odd that no one mentioned yet Call To Power I and II - those games had slavery, and plenty of it! I saw some civilizations being literally depopulated by their neighbours, who built a lot of slave traders!

Indeed, I used to bring the prodution levels of my societies up with slaves (no military unit of mine roamed the map without a slave trader; if I saw a barbarian/enemy unit, they were working the fields in no time).

Of course, this had me also begging the other (human) players NOT to build the Emancipation Act, which usually wrecked havoc with my country for awhile, but oh well...


As for EU, slavery should even be more important, because it was only with african slaves that the colonization of Brazil was possible (the european settlers never numbered more than a few tens of thousands, even by the mid-XVIIIth century).

That's because it was only with the labour of africans (the only ones though enough to whitstand both the heat and the work - the native indians died of exhaustion after a few months), especially sudanese slaves (the strongest - and those were sold by the arabs) that the brazilian tobacco and coffee plantations could be set to work. If they didn't exist, Brazil would remain what it was until the XVIIth century - jungle where you get nice parrots and a sturdy wood.
(one of the claimants to the portuguese royal throne - D.António, Prior do Crato - once offered Catherine de Médicis the whole of Brazil in 1580 if she would help him against Philip II of Spain; she declined because Brazil was nothing more that 'a place full of mosquitoes', as was put at the time - he had to bribe her with something different)

Small wonder that, but the time of independence (1824), half the population of Brazil was of african origin (and that includes the indians).

Slaves were also useful as warriors; we once repelled a Dutch assault on Macao with opium-filled slaves that attacked the 'blondies' so fiercely that they fled in panic back to their ships.
(and the fact that the only cannon we had there managed to hit their commander almost by miracle in the first ten minutes of the battle also helped, of course).

Regards,
Keoland
 

Orm

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The worst case of political correctness I've ever seen in a game was in Caesar II. It wasn't possible to play in the province of Judaea. That is taking pc too far.:rolleyes:
It's OK to slaughter germanic natives but not semitic?
 

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Originally posted by beowulf
It's OK to slaughter germanic natives but not semitic?

Apparently!

PC is a pernicious influence on the gaming industry-among all to many others.
 

dralizaar

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pc is funny..those who complain about games having slavery in them are not opposed to colonization which typically consisted of wiping out the native peoples by plague or conquest..or just wiping out their heritage...and they dont mind the wars to take neighbors lands..never mind the thousnads of peasants who get raped, killed or straved to death as result...moralizing bah..be moral..but be realistic..history happened you cant make it change by standing on soapbpzes and preaching pc
 

Orm

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In the Sid Meyer game Colonization there was no slave trade which to me seemed a bit strange seeing how important slavery was in the colonization of the Americas. Every other bad aspect of colonization was covered, like burning indian villages, pillaging burial mounds, selling alcohol and guns to the indians... pretty strange that slavery was left out. They had included indian converts coming into the colonies to work in the fields and mines, but that is blatantly ahistorical, since the indians in most places were found poorly suited for that kind of work. Also the indians were very hostile in the game, attacking colonies and colonists for no good reason.
The game was good, but with a twisted political correctness.
 
Aug 18, 2001
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I actually LOVED that slaver unit. In conjuntion with my armies, it allowed me to get my cities from size 2 to 4 or 5 in no time! It easily DOUBLED my population, while giving me no-wage labourers that worked for less food!

Besides, it allowed me to spot the other slavers, that could be really nasty (I also enslaved the slavers whenever possible) :D

But I think one of the factors that allowed slavery to go on CTP was that it could be done by all to all (very much like real life, anyway), so no particular civilization/ethnic group could be specifically targeted - in one game, the indians nearly disappeared, in another I kept the Dutch as a private hunting ground (made a 'Tordesillas Treaty' with the other three human players).

But I do agree that PC is getting too out of hand these days.

Regards,
Keoland