Archaven

Private
Mar 16, 2016
11
0
I read that Tyranny will be using a classless system. I can understand the reason for this as the main protagonist is some sort of executioner/inquisitor. So it doesn't fit to have a specific class.

However, i also read that it will also have a simplified skill leveling in Tyranny. This system is the same as Skyrim where you level your skill by performing/usage. Please hear me out, this is a bad system in my opinion. I would rather have the system where you have skill points gained during leveling and you can spend it on available skills.

In Skyrim, you can basically keep running or sprinting to increase your athleticism, keep blocking using your shield to increase your shield defense. this is the worst and most dumb down system ever if implemented incorrectly. have you heard that you sneak behind a horse, leave the game on and then go watch a movie, read the newspaper, have a cup of coffee and when you back voila!. sneak max level 100.

I'd like Obsidian to explain why they are going with this approach.
 

trashmyego

Private
34 Badges
Dec 28, 2009
23
42
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
There's a vast difference between reading an article based on an early preview of a developer playing a crafted demo, and everything you described 'hearing' in your post. You didn't hear any of what you brought up as an issue. You defined a worst case scenario based on a mention of Elder Scroll's open class, skill gain based on use, progression system - something they mention in passing as an example of freedom vs. the typical level based, table top inspired leveling they used in Pillars of Eternity.

They also go into detail that you'll gain experience outside of combat, that it'll be tied to decisions and dialogue as much as it is to the blatant use of skills. Which makes it sound like there are overarching constraints placed on skill gain purely from use, that progression through quests and content will be required.

But I'm honestly just confused. Why would you assume Obsidian would release a game with systems easily abused like that? That's a hallmark example of Bethesda laziness. The continued support and tooling of Pillars of Eternity should tell you enough - they're not going to let anything undermine the game system they're crafting.
 

Sacamano

Recruit
4 Badges
Mar 23, 2016
3
0
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
I read that Tyranny will be using a classless system. I can understand the reason for this as the main protagonist is some sort of executioner/inquisitor. So it doesn't fit to have a specific class.

However, i also read that it will also have a simplified skill leveling in Tyranny. This system is the same as Skyrim where you level your skill by performing/usage. Please hear me out, this is a bad system in my opinion. I would rather have the system where you have skill points gained during leveling and you can spend it on available skills.

In Skyrim, you can basically keep running or sprinting to increase your athleticism, keep blocking using your shield to increase your shield defense. this is the worst and most dumb down system ever if implemented incorrectly. have you heard that you sneak behind a horse, leave the game on and then go watch a movie, read the newspaper, have a cup of coffee and when you back voila!. sneak max level 100.

I'd like Obsidian to explain why they are going with this approach.

I like this type of leveling progression. I find it much more immersive. You know how when you do something you get better at it? I love that in an RPG. Its the players choice to exploit the system (if its exploitable). But when I play a game I want to be immersed and have fun, not spend my time cheesing the system. Even if that cheesing occurs while I'm AFK, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd do that.
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
The dinamic progression has its advantages, but I don't like the fact that it allows players to eventually be proficient in everything, as it happens in Skyrim. Or that, not having checks on classes, the NPCs can hardly react differently whether they're talking to a mage or a barbarian.
 

Sacamano

Recruit
4 Badges
Mar 23, 2016
3
0
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
The dinamic progression has its advantages, but I don't like the fact that it allows players to eventually be proficient in everything, as it happens in Skyrim. Or that, not having checks on classes, the NPCs can hardly react differently whether they're talking to a mage or a barbarian.

I agree with you there. There might be a cap on certain skills or a rate of deterioration. Say I have a Sword rating of 100 and now I want to learn Fire magic (making shit up here), if I don't keep up with my Swording practice my proficiency will go down.

Class checks can be done with this more open system too. Certain skills will make it obvious to others what you are like. Do a lot of manual labor, it shows. Stay inside and read all day, that shows too. Those 'skills' can and should influence NPC interaction too.

There can be mechanisms to prevent cheesing the system and making the system more immersive and impactful.
 

illathid

Elector Count of Reikland
75 Badges
Feb 22, 2012
2.001
591
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
The dinamic progression has its advantages, but I don't like the fact that it allows players to eventually be proficient in everything, as it happens in Skyrim. Or that, not having checks on classes, the NPCs can hardly react differently whether they're talking to a mage or a barbarian.

There's different ways to keep that from being an issue. You could make skills deteriorate over time, or make it a zero-sum system (Going up in one skill decreases you abilities in other skills).

Obsidian is pretty good at skill/attribute checks too, so I'm not worried about that.
 

KorTeX

Recruit
53 Badges
Oct 29, 2012
5
28
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
Got me worried too.
Though the game's bound to have good c&c it seems, so I'm still pumped.
Although read somewhere the playthrough would be around 20hrs long (which is fine if the game delivers in the c&c department), which means that the system can't really work like Skyrim, which revolves around long playtime to become really silly.
 

Nyrael

Field Marshal
82 Badges
Jul 20, 2008
5.838
4.838
31
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
The dinamic progression has its advantages, but I don't like the fact that it allows players to eventually be proficient in everything, as it happens in Skyrim.

Skyrim's leveling drastically slows down as you gain higher levels. Even if you powerplay and abuse the system, you eventually become unable to get more perks. So you won't be proficient in everything ("Legendary Skills" changed some stuff, but if you use that subsystem then you are not the type of player who cares about immersion in the first place).

What I want to say is: Obsidian can easily make restrictions if they want to. You can harshen up the restrictions that were like in Skyrim, but you can also add brand new ones. Additionally, Obsidian's playthroughs don't last nearly as long as Bethesda games' do so that is another problem in getting high amounts of proficiency without power-playing.

Or that, not having checks on classes, the NPCs can hardly react differently whether they're talking to a mage or a barbarian.

Other checks can be used to have NPCs react differently, like checking your skills, your allegiances, your past actions, etc.
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I know that other checks can be made, both to avoid reaching the status of universal super-class and to make NPCs treat different proficiencies differently, but that is usually not the case in practice.
Sure, if Obsidian did it so, it would probably be the ideal solution, but, by empirical data, when a game has "build your own class", it usually means no recognition of preferred skillset by the roleplayed part of the game.
 

trashmyego

Private
34 Badges
Dec 28, 2009
23
42
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I know that other checks can be made, both to avoid reaching the status of universal super-class and to make NPCs treat different proficiencies differently, but that is usually not the case in practice.
Sure, if Obsidian did it so, it would probably be the ideal solution, but, by empirical data, when a game has "build your own class", it usually means no recognition of preferred skillset by the roleplayed part of the game.

You can bring up 'empirical data,' but you're also ignoring the mention that skills will also be improved outside of combat and use through dialogue and completion of content. That'd point to recognition and integration of said skills throughout the role playing parts of the game, actually pointing to them being pretty damn integral to the whole operation.
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
That's promising, but not necessarely the case. Having a special ability being unlocked after a specific quest is one thing, have it brought up that you are a "mage" as a consequence of having spent more effort on magic abilities than on any other thing by NPCs, and, as a result, having a specific plot proceed in a different way, is a completely different thing.
 

Archaven

Private
Mar 16, 2016
11
0
I agree with you there. There might be a cap on certain skills or a rate of deterioration. Say I have a Sword rating of 100 and now I want to learn Fire magic (making shit up here), if I don't keep up with my Swording practice my proficiency will go down.

Class checks can be done with this more open system too. Certain skills will make it obvious to others what you are like. Do a lot of manual labor, it shows. Stay inside and read all day, that shows too. Those 'skills' can and should influence NPC interaction too.

There can be mechanisms to prevent cheesing the system and making the system more immersive and impactful.

If that's the case, why go with this rubbish progression system? This is really a dumbed down mechanics. Sooner they will follow path like what Bioware is heading? Where attributes is no longer to be "concerned" by players and it just happened automatically? It seems i'm seeing Obsidian heading that direction. And what's worst, the game became non tactical and an action game at best with 8 ability limit. Which i really hope not.
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I don't know if we can go that far, considering the little information we have now.
Besides, it is an isometric game, it's unlikely to turn into an action game, at worst it'd devolve into a hack&slash.
 

Archaven

Private
Mar 16, 2016
11
0
I don't know if we can go that far, considering the little information we have now.
Besides, it is an isometric game, it's unlikely to turn into an action game, at worst it'd devolve into a hack&slash.

You are right. I can't wait to have more information about it. But if they have mentioned about this progression, you don't need a genius to tell you how it will flop. If they meant to control the progression by content where you can't simply achieve max skill level by abusing the system, might as well just go the conventional way where you can allocate the skillpoints yourself? This way it will be more clear and you can actually see those stats yourself in the character stats page? Are they going hide that stats now where you have no way to tell your skill progression level?

Anyway i love what they revealed that you gained equal rewards for either options you choose. That is you can resolve a situation by the dialogue options and still gained equal experience or reward. Rather than the "combat" way. However, i'd much prefer combat personally because that's one reason i played a tactical RPG. Not only for the xp but also the loot.
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Anyway i love what they revealed that you gained equal rewards for either options you choose. That is you can resolve a situation by the dialogue options and still gained equal experience or reward.
Yes, this is a good thing; it is something Obsidian does, already in New Vegas there were a lot of situations that could be solved through persuasion, intimidation and the like. In most RPGs the diplomatic aspect only works to gain advantage before a fight or to obtain a greater reward for a mission, but rarely to actually influence the resolution of a quest.
 

Archaven

Private
Mar 16, 2016
11
0
Yes, this is a good thing; it is something Obsidian does, already in New Vegas there were a lot of situations that could be solved through persuasion, intimidation and the like. In most RPGs the diplomatic aspect only works to gain advantage before a fight or to obtain a greater reward for a mission, but rarely to actually influence the resolution of a quest.

Most of the time this is also boils down to the skillpoints and to roll chance of success. Which i don't think that's really a good options in resolving the matter. The smart way would be the players will have an early chance to get to know this character (his/her behavior) and they with higher stats like Intimidation/Persuasion, player can be given more dialogue choices. However, only the right choices of the dialogue can only resolve the issue. I'm not sure of what other better options if you asked me.

If you still have to roll a chance with higher persuasion/intimidation skill on a dialogue i think that's not a very good sytem. It basically depends on luck or chance to persuade/intimidate. Which is not really by the dialogue you choose. What do you think?
 

Silfae

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 4, 2013
1.199
297
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I agree. Besides, in an RPG you could easily savescum, so a bad dice can just translate into a temporary nuisance.
There is also to be said that in New Vegas there was no saving throw, it was a fixed cap, so a particular alternative option could require, say, 50 Speech, it would become accessible if the player had increased his Speech skill to 50 or above, otherwise it could not be taken.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

Mademoiselle Gothique (she/her/hers)
Moderator
88 Badges
Dec 4, 2003
19.889
2.775
nhkendall.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
In Skyrim, you can basically keep running or sprinting to increase your athleticism, keep blocking using your shield to increase your shield defense. this is the worst and most dumb down system ever if implemented incorrectly. have you heard that you sneak behind a horse, leave the game on and then go watch a movie, read the newspaper, have a cup of coffee and when you back voila!. sneak max level 100.
That's an exploit, so not really a legitimate concern. I think it is fair to assume that the devs should focus on those who play by the game's rules rather than those who actively choose not to.

Plus tying skills to levels can just as easily be gamed inappropriately. Going back to your example, I can grind something easy to level up and then use those points to level something unrelated.

What I like about the Elder Scrolls system is that if I want to be a good sword fighter I need to, and hold onto your hat for this, fight... with swords. So in your scenario yes, the game breaker would have an amazing sneak skill, but so what? It will actually make the game harder for them. They've gained ten levels on their character without once increasing a skill beside sneak. They still can't fight, they still can't defend, their magic is still weak; but the enemies in Skrim level with your over-all level, so they've gotten much, much stronger over-all. It's not like draugr level up their crafting or diplomacy skills.
 

Archaven

Private
Mar 16, 2016
11
0
That's an exploit, so not really a legitimate concern. I think it is fair to assume that the devs should focus on those who play by the game's rules rather than those who actively choose not to.

Plus tying skills to levels can just as easily be gamed inappropriately. Going back to your example, I can grind something easy to level up and then use those points to level something unrelated.

What I like about the Elder Scrolls system is that if I want to be a good sword fighter I need to, and hold onto your hat for this, fight... with swords. So in your scenario yes, the game breaker would have an amazing sneak skill, but so what? It will actually make the game harder for them. They've gained ten levels on their character without once increasing a skill beside sneak. They still can't fight, they still can't defend, their magic is still weak; but the enemies in Skrim level with your over-all level, so they've gotten much, much stronger over-all. It's not like draugr level up their crafting or diplomacy skills.

You gained mostly x skill points per level up. Tell me how you going to grind infinitely when most game has a level cap and you can only gain x amount of skill points and capped level? Also, most games worked that each level the xp points required for next level increased exponentially. Plus most smart devs will reduce xp gained from overleveled foes to 1xp. Please at least provide some supporting facts in your discussion.

The problem with ES system already well explained. Maybe you need to re-read and understand the issue there. Plus the system you mentioned can already be done similarly with skillpoints. You want to be good at swords, upon levelling you assign a skill points to it. It's very clear cut. Compared to you need to grind more if in performance/usage system. As i see how it would be control would be making it as an XP requirement to level the "bar". For example you are now at Level 10 at Sword skill. You can only see the bar and waiting it to fill up to Level 11. But you may not know it probably requires triple the requirement from Level 10. But this can be bypassed if there's by abusing the system if there's a mechanic that you are able to abuse.
 

illathid

Elector Count of Reikland
75 Badges
Feb 22, 2012
2.001
591
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
You gained mostly x skill points per level up. Tell me how you going to grind infinitely when most game has a level cap and you can only gain x amount of skill points and capped level? Also, most games worked that each level the xp points required for next level increased exponentially. Plus most smart devs will reduce xp gained from overleveled foes to 1xp. Please at least provide some supporting facts in your discussion.

The problem with ES system already well explained. Maybe you need to re-read and understand the issue there. Plus the system you mentioned can already be done similarly with skillpoints. You want to be good at swords, upon levelling you assign a skill points to it. It's very clear cut. Compared to you need to grind more if in performance/usage system. As i see how it would be control would be making it as an XP requirement to level the "bar". For example you are now at Level 10 at Sword skill. You can only see the bar and waiting it to fill up to Level 11. But you may not know it probably requires triple the requirement from Level 10. But this can be bypassed if there's by abusing the system if there's a mechanic that you are able to abuse.

Just because some have done the mechanics poorly doesn't mean they will always be bad. For instance, every time you level up one skill it could decrease some or all of the other skills.

Really until we know more, there's no use in complaining about how it works.