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NapoleonI

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It´s a MP game. Unlike SP with the AI, the contestants are proactive, not reactive. Would you sit idly seeing your opponent grab an advantage to crush you later? However that´s one GP versus 3, what is UK doing BTW?

Considering how Germany has its troubles to form in SP however it´s probable that yes, France is OP.

Yes, but I don´t see what France could do about it? Wars in China are most often over in 1-2 months. You win a few battles on the first couple of days and then China surrenders.

France can´t sphere China in the normal way. So France can´t really intervene.
 

Sid Meier

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Yes, but I don´t see what France could do about it? Wars in China are most often over in 1-2 months. You win a few battles on the first couple of days and then China surrenders.

France can´t sphere China in the normal way. So France can´t really intervene.

House Rules. Its against the rules to sphere or conquer bits off of China aside from a few things like Mongolia/Korea/Manchuria/Amur.
 

1alexey

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Did I got you right, 5 GPs, skip investing in techs that would allow them to supply their armies, instead invest in techs that will increase the supply requirements of your already undersupplied troops?

Why not invest into industry techs and get your troops supplied? 1 full level of military techs doesn`t compensate wastly worse numerical odds, and your well supplied troops with inferiour techs should be much better then higher techs undersupplied troops.
 

eidur

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I'm a part of that game, I took a look around player countries and techs arent that bad, with 1 or 2 exceptions maybe. While full mining and iron output tech would maybe fix problem for top 4-5 nations, anyone else will still have troubles building their troops. We are I believe 15 in that game, as Netherlands I built 2 or 3 brigades during the 10-something years the war lasted.

@Beagá, France isn't op, after being horrible in AHD because of the pop growth nerf, France is finally up to speed with Germany.
 

Emperor Hans

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Maybe it's time to take all iron provinces, I mean, you're saying you buy it from China, they're poor in tech hence their production is shit.
A technologically advanced country could pour out tons of extra metals from the same region.
 

Thanik

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So build irregulars, or all nations dow China, and all get some land, or wait for all positive modifiers and techs :)
 

falloutboy14

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I'm the NGF from the original post & a few things:

1) the war was France vs NGF, Austria, USA, Russia, Italy, OE. It was originally a crisis war over an African colony.
2) The big problem early in the war was that China produced maybe 50% of the world's canned goods. France as the #2 prestige was able to buy them before anyone else on the other side. So French troops received 80-100% of their goods, NGF was in the 30% range by comparison.
3) The war was literally a stale-mate for 4 years, with every French colony occupied, but we could make no progress against France itself. During that time NGF & I think Austria built a canned goods factory in every state. For NGF, canned food production tripled from 50 units a day to 150+. That really helped as NGF was able to surpass China as the primary producer & produce more than China & France combined.
4) The production efficiency hits really affected military supplies. Early in the war, the NGF would have needed 53% of the world's canned goods solely for standing army/mobilization. Prior to the war, NGF & Austria were the #1/2 producer of every other military good, but we couldn't do anything without canned goods. So we'd put the effort into our military industry, just mis-allocated it to small arms etc.
5) For MP games especially, its invaluable for lower prestige countries to control their own military production and push Chinese artisans out of the market if possible. If Chinese artisans are big players in these goods, countries with higher prestige will rule over lower prestige. (assuming no sphering is taking place)
6) As someone asked, the UK was neutral, it had joined France in a previous war, which was a disaster for the German side. Presumably because of supply shortage. This was the third of these wars, where in every one the NGF side had the technology/brigade advantage, but it took us a few tries to lock down on the canned food issue.

Try it with the 3.02 patch before you make changes. I seem to recall us rebalancing iron and coal production.

- Did any of the non french side grab iron provinces in sweden etc, does germany have the rheinland etc do you have your iron techs up?
- I can see how it can be a problem now that China isnt sphereable so you cant gang up and kick france out of the sphere there. If none of the above works I'd play around with relocating the huge Iron RGO in china to be spread out among the smaller substates where it can be competed over.

but the problem might be much less in 3.02, so it would be cool if you let me know next time you have a huge MP war
Sweden is/was a player so its untouched, I believe Russia gave up Finland out of kindness. Germany has all lands associated with the NGF (not including Luxembourg). Baden, Wurtenburg, & Bavaria exist as normal, and are NGF sphered.

As for China, we opened up Machuria to be taken (since it has lower pop totals) so China/Guanxi are only about 7% of the worlds iron currently (Austria is 14%). Austria, Russia, Japan (Korea/Manchuria), Spain, & USA are the top iron producers. Spain is now an AI, but the other 4 are all pretty much maxed technology as far as improving iron production are concerned.

Also note, we've been playing on the SPKR checksum and all of these numbers are me checking now on whatever the new checksum is. If anyone would like saves uploaded, I can provide them.
 

podcat

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Anyone who gets China's iron would just dominate the rest of the game. There's a reason why in most MP games attacking most of China is a no-no.

You mean the way France is dominating at the moment because its higher rank lets it buy it. Sounds to me like this house rule is just working against competition.

anyways, let me know next time you play using 3.02. it should be improved.
 

falloutboy14

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To update, I didn't notice a huge difference with the patch. When we updated, we also crossed 1900, so we got access to the electric furnace research at the same time. There's always been a late-game iron shortage, so without numbers can't say where this game compares. As far as canned foods, people have adjusted, and now there's a large surplus as everyone I think is subsidizing their own factories so they can produce their own in a future war. Its bad news to have laissez-faire governments take power. I had a lvl 20 canned foods factory get deleted by the capitalists after about a month. As it stands now, being LZ or not top-5 prestige is asking for trouble militarily. Especially since canned food factories take 2 years to build from scratch.

A few MP problems unrelated to iron/canned goods I've noticed:
1) It'd be super if we could get more variation in the location of crisis events. I haven't counted but I think we've had about a dozen in Western Afghanistan or Peru (we have an ecuador and panjab player who've conquered those areas). In MP we sort of have the mind-set to not be jerks to the small players, so no one ever supports Peru or Afghanistan in those instances. Perhaps a modifier that if all 8 GPs have the opportunity to support a side, and all refuse the state gets a 10-year cooldown. Also, I'm fairly sure its been ~50 years since we've had a crisis in Europe. I guess Europe is fairly stable, so that's to be expected. No major wars during that time etc.

2) Another issue we're having is that the UK has so much naval supply throughput. To put some numbers up in 1924:
UK: 15000; TUR: 9000; USA: 6000; FRA: 4800; JAP: 3300; ITA: 2500; NET: 2500; GER: 2000.
IMO, some sort of restriction on building colonial ports or non-core provinces. Or have a difference in the number of points from a colonial port vs a state port. As it stands now British Australia & New Zealand have as many ports as Germany.

3) Hand in hand with this, when colonization was taking place, Britain and France had such a huge colonial point advantage (due to starting with colonies and the ports to go with them, that for colonization they both had about a 1000 point advantage on everyone else. The result was that they could compete everywhere, and regardless of how many how many colonial competitions they were involved in, they had the points to win out aside from against one another.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(376721)

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2) Another issue we're having is that the UK has so much naval supply throughput. To put some numbers up in 1924:
UK: 15000; TUR: 9000; USA: 6000; FRA: 4800; JAP: 3300; ITA: 2500; NET: 2500; GER: 2000.
IMO, some sort of restriction on building colonial ports or non-core provinces. Or have a difference in the number of points from a colonial port vs a state port. As it stands now British Australia & New Zealand have as many ports as Germany.

Hi falloutboy14,
There is already a difference between "home port" vs "oversea port" in term of navy supply throughput contribution. For example, a level 3 home port provides 40 points vs 12 points from oversea port. The difference grows wider as port-level increases. Having said that, a level-6 colonial port still equal to one addtional dreadnought, if you can folk out the money to upgrade it all the way.

3) Hand in hand with this, when colonization was taking place, Britain and France had such a huge colonial point advantage (due to starting with colonies and the ports to go with them, that for colonization they both had about a 1000 point advantage on everyone else. The result was that they could compete everywhere, and regardless of how many how many colonial competitions they were involved in, they had the points to win out aside from against one another.

Yes, I can relate and sympathize with you as a Germany player in a MP game. You don't have much range nor CP to compete with either France or the UK for colonization. Unless you actively pursue oversea colony holdings from the get go yourself, if circumstance allowed.

Once the UK and France are done with colonization, there will be another additional 100-200 bridages that they can ship back to Europe each. Pretty hard.