Singapore

[Khezef]

How come Singapore is so important? Looking at the EU4 map, you can easily go around it by Jakarta, but in WW2 it was called the Gibraltar of the East. There was no way to bypass Gibraltar before the Suez Canal, but there are lots of ways to bypass Singapore. What's its deal?

 

[loveactually]

How come Singapore is so important? Looking at the EU4 map, you can easily go around it by Jakarta, but in WW2 it was called the Gibraltar of the East. There was no way to bypass Gibraltar before the Suez Canal, but there are lots of ways to bypass Singapore. What's its deal?

AFAIK, during this time, malacca and malacca strait overshadowed most of the SEA's port as the main trading center.
including sunda kelapa (jakarta).
but, another discovery (fort canning) mentioned that singapore could be an important trade port in 14th century. http://www.seaarchaeology.com/v1/html/sg/fort_canning.html

it would be interesting to add temasek (singapore) into the game and make it a COT

 

[Khezef]

Yeah I always assumed that little island off the tip of the mainland was Singapore, but recently I found it wasn't. They really should add it considering how historically important it was.

 

[Trin Tragula]

They really should add it considering how historically important it was.

In the era that EU4 covers it really wasn't.

 

[trybald]

Iirc, the meteoric rise of Singapore was strictly because the British found this place to be an excellent natural harbour for their Navy. With the Navy's protection against pirates, local rulers' whims and such, more and more merchants came there to sell, buy or just pass through in relative safety. Trade routes gradually shifted and Singapore eclipsed other centers of trade.

 

[Incompetent]

How come Singapore is so important? Looking at the EU4 map, you can easily go around it by Jakarta, but in WW2 it was called the Gibraltar of the East. There was no way to bypass Gibraltar before the Suez Canal, but there are lots of ways to bypass Singapore. What's its deal?

Same reason Hong Kong was important: Britain took over an insignificant island and turned it into a major trading port and outpost of the Empire. It wasn't so much their location that made them important (both are located in decent positions, but there were perfectly good pre-existing ports nearby), but rather the dominant status of the British empire at the time.

The British establishment of bases in Hong Kong and Singapore was in the 19th century though. Neither of these places had much significance before then, so they're not really relevant in the EU era.

 

[Khezef]

In the era that EU4 covers it really wasn't.

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

 

[loveactually]

an event for any nations who control singapore during some timeframe which will turn singapore into a COT would be good enough

 

[Rubidium]

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

It would be an another annoyingly tiny province to click on. Given that, unlike Macau, it wasn't important in history and isn't needed to make borders work, it makes sense to not add another one of those.

 

[The-King]

You stole my avatar!

 

[Krajzen]

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

More unnecessary things is worse than less unnecessary things.

Of course in the context od SEA still having worst religion in game (buddhism), not a single unique event outside of Ayutthaia and not a little bit of flavour.

 

[TornadoWatch]

You stole my avatar!

I was wondering when you'd show up in this thread.

 

[Nikolaj-11]

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

If you are interested and not against mods, Singapore exist in the "Extended Timeline" and "Extended Map" mods. I don't remember if it is a important center of trade.

 

[net.split]

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

This is a general weakness with the province development system. You can build buildings in a province, but you're forever limited by the base values. There's rarely a reason to focus your development efforts in anything but the provinces that are predetermined to be the richest and most important.

 

[Me_]

But the game is about what COULD happen, isn't it? What if 1500s France created a maritime empire and decided to put a trading post there? Its location would make it a pretty good Center of Trade. If places like Macau get their own province, I don't know how having Singapore would hurt.

Macau was important within the game's timeline. Singapore was not (a population of 1000 in 1819 does not exactly spell Important Centre of Trade for me). If the argument is that it "could be important then every single meaningless village needs to be represented. After all, it could become important.

This is a general weakness with the province development system. You can build buildings in a province, but you're forever limited by the base values. There's rarely a reason to focus your development efforts in anything but the provinces that are predetermined to be the richest and most important.

There are a handfull of events that increase base values, but, since they cannot be guided, and are purely random it's just a case of provinces occassionally becoming slightly more valuable in some games, but not others.

 

[TheBoozehammer]

I feel like it should be a COT at least, as should Hong Kong, +1

 

[Me_]

I feel like it should be a COT at least, as should Hong Kong, +1

Why? There were more cities with more trade activity in every single European province than on that one island.

 

[Nikolaj-11]

I would love if they could add events with dynamic COT's based on areas the Western countries occupy late game. Say if Britain had half of Borneo a OCT would be added to the province with the highest base tax or something similar.

Not sure if that would be OP but I like anything that adds alternative history options.

 

[BFTeixeira]

I feel like it should be a COT at least, as should Hong Kong, +1

They had no importance until the late XVIII and early XIX century, so i don't agree.

 

[Glacierfairy]

Singapore was a thriving port city for about a century up till the late 1300s, when it was sacked by the Majapahit and fallen into obscurity over the years until Stamford Raffles came by and set up a British trading post in 1819. It would definitely be nice to have a Singapore province with a releasable core for the Kingdom of Singapura. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Singapura