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i read from another thread that there are pirated copies being sold in Beijing.
Honestly, pirated behaviours happen everywhere on Earth (say, where do those stuff like BT and Napster come from originally). The problems in China turn out to be more "eyeball catching" because there are more people and more business as well as there still exists a lot misunderstanding or even prejudice on Chinese.
Don't under-estimate the market even if the product is sold at a relatively lower price than is sold at other places because taking into the number of volumes sold, it is usually worth the investment.
btw, nowadays, there are Chinese here and there (overseas). Aren't these people potential customers?
hehe, perhaps let's focus on this great game HOI2 again and the CHARM OF COMMUNISM :rofl:
John_Keats, if you are interested in our great leader Chairman MAO, we could find a more appropriate venue to rejoice his story.
Honestly, pirated behaviours happen everywhere on Earth (say, where do those stuff like BT and Napster come from originally). The problems in China turn out to be more "eyeball catching" because there are more people and more business as well as there still exists a lot misunderstanding or even prejudice on Chinese.
Don't under-estimate the market even if the product is sold at a relatively lower price than is sold at other places because taking into the number of volumes sold, it is usually worth the investment.
btw, nowadays, there are Chinese here and there (overseas). Aren't these people potential customers?
hehe, perhaps let's focus on this great game HOI2 again and the CHARM OF COMMUNISM :rofl:
John_Keats, if you are interested in our great leader Chairman MAO, we could find a more appropriate venue to rejoice his story.
Orthank said:
Yes is possible, as my first game I've played with ComChi at normal/normal and I've took the entire China + Tibet, Sinkiang and Yunnan; leaving to Japan Manchuria and some minor north-east provinces. In that game Japan never entered alliance with Germany and never declared war against USA or USSR, so they were useful to get rid of NatChi troops, then they made peace with NatChi taking out minor provinces and I continued my expansion into NatChi territory.
Il Moro said:
Then you must be very good i played Commies several times without much achievements.
Orthank said:
I don't know if I'm a good player but what I've done was: Declare war against Shanxi when Japan dowed it, then sending money to Japan to have better relationship and continue to slowly pushing south NatChi troops, when in mine game Japan made peace with NatChi in 1945 I continued the war against them. When NatChi was nearly to be destroyed they annexed Xibei San Ma, occupying that provinces was a joke, after the occupation of Xibei's provinces I declared war against Tibet and after it's annexation I turned my attention to Yunnan. After the capitulation of NatChi I dowed Sinkiang and annexed it. The "secret" is to maintain a good relationship with Japan also if they're Fascist and to occupy ASAP the provinces of Yulin and Hohot in Shanxi plus their most rich provinces, this to avoid to be embraced by Japanese occupied provinces in the north; then research as much as possible infantry techs, mountain troops tech, artillery tech, industry tech and transport tech for better TC. I've a screen of 1947 ComChi but I don't know how to post it
Japan didn't dowed you , and as Communist China you had enough money to influence Japan , after several months of playing this game i still don't know it - but it's good.
, and as Communist China you had enough money to influence Japan , after several months of playing this game i still don't know it - but it's good.
Orthank said:Japan didn't dowed you
Yep, Japan didn't dowed me, I was lucky, cause during the entire game I had fear that at everytime Japan could Dow me whiping me out. For the money is "pretty simple", with the conquest of provinces with Industries your IC improve then there are some ComChi ministers which improve the IC output, then I maximize the consumer goods to obtain more money, in 1947 I got a + 2,67 daily money. But the great boost of money and resources was given to me by the annexation of Tibet in 1944, they give to me 1500-1600 money; from that moment I was able to research continuosly with Lin Pao, Mao and Deng. Don't forget to maintain good relation with England, Holland and USA too, they are plentiful of resources to trade for supplies. And as in mine game WW3 erupted by the will of that madman of Stalin the Allies are happy to receive supplies, even from ComChi.
I really do hope this is a language problem and CP is looking for a word like "flavour" or "strength," for if he truly wants to see the "charm" of communism in the game, he is sadly out of luck as many of its "charms" are forbidden topics on this board and in the game...draw your own conclusions here.
Lens said:
Heavy sarcasm doesn't come across so well in an internet forum, I suppose.
Also, back to the topic, I suppose there might be cause to increase dissent or something in nationalist china and Japan.
Chinese Potato said:OLD DAYS
In HOI2, the charm of Communism in Mainland China is not properly simulated. Do we have to wait until HOI3 or a few mod could do?
This thread hopes to help modelling that period of time in Mainland China as well as making the game more appealling to the Chinese Market (I guess people in Mainland China can order from internet or buy it in Hong Kong or Macau if the game is really banned in retails).
Hate to break it to you, but the great chairman wasn't really winning the civil war at this time. How can you herald the long march and then ignore who sent you on that march?
I personally hope John does not bend over backwards for people who are prey to propaganda. The situation in China is fine so long as Japan will FINALLY capture Nanjing for once!
Played a game as communist china today and I noticed something rather boring.
The game:
Started out making mountain troops, lots of them and after a scripted(?) event got peace with everyone. After building up an army of 7 troops start out attacking northeast and annexing that minor(forgot name). Moving my troops west now while fortifying nationalist border.
Japan never DoW's anyone and in 1940 i DoW western neighbour only to be dowed on by nationalist china. After a while I annex the western minor and get my third techteamslot, great. Still only 3 scientist. Oh well maybe I'll get more later. My 20+ mountaineer army is unstoppable by now and after a year of fighting I annex them as well. 5 techteamslots and only 3 techteams. Great!
Shouldnt all countries at least have 5 techteams?
The game:
Started out making mountain troops, lots of them and after a scripted(?) event got peace with everyone. After building up an army of 7 troops start out attacking northeast and annexing that minor(forgot name). Moving my troops west now while fortifying nationalist border.
Japan never DoW's anyone and in 1940 i DoW western neighbour only to be dowed on by nationalist china. After a while I annex the western minor and get my third techteamslot, great. Still only 3 scientist. Oh well maybe I'll get more later. My 20+ mountaineer army is unstoppable by now and after a year of fighting I annex them as well. 5 techteamslots and only 3 techteams. Great!
Shouldnt all countries at least have 5 techteams?
By embracing the market economy "communism" no longer exists in China. Their government might better be described as a nationalist military junta with an increasingly decentralized economic structure.Chinese Potato said:TODAY
By embracing market economy and blended with planning economy, most people in Mainland would describe that Communism in China has only its body left but soul lost.
However, to the firm believers of the communism (dream/hope) and the party (CCP) as well as some scholars, Communism has not died. Communism is only evolved to be a more adoptive doctrine when compared to the old days.
OLD DAYS
In HOI2, the charm of Communism in Mainland China is not properly simulated. Do we have to wait until HOI3 or a few mod could do?
This thread hopes to help modelling that period of time in Mainland China as well as making the game more appealling to the Chinese Market (I guess people in Mainland China can order from internet or buy it in Hong Kong or Macau if the game is really banned in retails).
I fail to see the charm of communism. It has failed in every real world application.
Eastern communist countries have been historically strong not because of the integrity of their governments, but due to their massive indoctrinated populations and willingness to use violent force to press the population into service.
Chinese Potato said:
Communist China expanded through violent cultural purges & the social indoctrination of an uneducated work force who had never before experienced anything other than despotic rule.
Not sure what "charms"you are talking about but during the HOI2 era the communists did have a certain appeal compared to the nationalists. Redistributing land etc. of course this situation is incomparable to the one that developed from the 50's onward.Captain America said:I really do hope this is a language problem and CP is looking for a word like "flavour" or "strength," for if he truly wants to see the "charm" of communism in the game, he is sadly out of luck as many of its "charms" are forbidden topics on this board and in the game...draw your own conclusions here.
actually Maoist Communism had a lot of "charm" for the oppressed peasants in China
(keep in mind that I dislike Communists in general, having been born in behind the Iron Curtain in Warsaw, Poland)
the KuoMingTan (KMT or Nationalist Chinese) and the other warlords were extremely corrupt
if you were an indentured Chinese peasant that:
-was starving most of the time,
-had one pair of pants that you shared with your wife,
-were constantly in danger of being shanghaied into a local or a passing warlord's army
-or in danger of being killed by bandits (whom might be working for yet another warlord)
-were being taxed to death by the local mandarins (chinese bureaucratic officials)
then quite possibly you might support the Communists.
you wouldn't support the Commies if you were part of the KMT, a warlord or a soldier or one of the rich upperclass, or a trader/entrepreneur/merchant in one of the coastal province (this last category would include Christian converts because missionary work had the most success were the Europeans had ready access)
basically it ended up as a huge underclass lead by Commie cadres (middle-class and frustrated by the lack of advancement) against a part of a small middle-class and an even tinier upper-class
(keep in mind that I dislike Communists in general, having been born in behind the Iron Curtain in Warsaw, Poland)
the KuoMingTan (KMT or Nationalist Chinese) and the other warlords were extremely corrupt
if you were an indentured Chinese peasant that:
-was starving most of the time,
-had one pair of pants that you shared with your wife,
-were constantly in danger of being shanghaied into a local or a passing warlord's army
-or in danger of being killed by bandits (whom might be working for yet another warlord)
-were being taxed to death by the local mandarins (chinese bureaucratic officials)
then quite possibly you might support the Communists.
you wouldn't support the Commies if you were part of the KMT, a warlord or a soldier or one of the rich upperclass, or a trader/entrepreneur/merchant in one of the coastal province (this last category would include Christian converts because missionary work had the most success were the Europeans had ready access)
basically it ended up as a huge underclass lead by Commie cadres (middle-class and frustrated by the lack of advancement) against a part of a small middle-class and an even tinier upper-class
If the communists truely had such a massive appeal to peasants the war wouldn't of gone on as long as it had.
Burris said:
It took them time to train their party cadres and have them go out and spread their propaganda (much like missionaries in fact). Plus they started out in an extremely weak position - their 'home base' was located in the mountainous Yunnan province because of its isolation and defensibility. Basically in the chaos of the war with Japan, they got lucky, got their reprieve from fighting the KMT and managed to build up enough strength to mop up after WWII came to a close. It didn't hurt that their opponents were disorganized and corrupt.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Communism or Stalinism or Marxism or Leninism or Bolshevism the least bit. But it doesn't stop me from finding out why the Chicoms eventually won.
ConcordantNexus said:
These are all valid facts, but I'd like to add that the KMT was devastated by Japanese occupation, much more than the ChiComs were. The areas occupied by Japan were the urban, industrial core of the country - exactly Chiang's power base. While the peasantry tilted towards the Communists, the urban areas had always won out in terms of power base - until the Japanese destroyed that balance of power.
Of course, the Nationalists, as you said, were hardly people to root for. While they evolved into a semi-democratic society after the civil war, they were nothing like while the civil war was going on. Chiang spent the entire war against Japan looking forward to continuing the fight against the ChiComs rather than actively going after the Japanese.
Stillwell, after his mission to China, privately grumbled that the Nationalists were hoarding the supplies provided by the U.S. during the war for use against the Communists and actually suggested helping the ChiComs. In his opinion, the ChiComs were doing more to fight against the Japanese. This wasn't something that the average Chinese peasant overlooked, either.
I tried play CC. I was kinda suprised when the territory I captured went to the nationalist forces...
Captain America said:I really do hope this is a language problem and CP is looking for a word like "flavour" or "strength," for if he truly wants to see the "charm" of communism in the game, he is sadly out of luck as many of its "charms" are forbidden topics on this board and in the game...draw your own conclusions here.
Then where's the freedom of speech
Why people in Mainland China can talk about democracy nowadays but we cannot talk about "Charm of Communism" here?
Btw, even the government website in the States (USA) can talk about it
the link is here:
http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/China/Political Evolution/1932-49/index.html#nationalists
Because they belong to Nat. China. Yes, it is annoyingDhatori said:I tried play CC. I was kinda suprised when the territory I captured went to the nationalist forces...
.