Simple Suggestion: Require De Jure Drift to be bordering the target Kingdom/Empire

[User29]

Random de jure French provinces in Germany and etc. If a direct border is too much then at LEAST require a bordering sea province.

I know many of you already have heard or suggested this before, any reason this ISN'T a good idea?

EDIT: Adjustments so far

If an empire crusades for kingdom of Jerusalem from say HRE and holds it a century it is clearly their de jur territory.

How about Empire Tier titles just needing coastline as should the target kingdom.

and by coastline the same "ocean" coastline, since not sharing a mutual body of water is as good as being landlocked.

No. I love wacky de jure drift. Also, if you first conquer duchy 1 which borders your kingdom, and from there take duchy 2 that doesn't, why should that second duchy take 200 years instead? Drift times are long enough as is.

then why not just require bordering another duchy drifting, that way you could drift whole kingdoms into your kingdom at a time. Say Tengri Turkestan taking all of Khiva at once would have all the duchies begin to drift since they all either border Turkestan or border a duchy drifting into Turkestan.

 

[theStormWeaver]

Random de jure French provinces in Germany and etc. If a direct border is too much then at LEAST require a bordering sea province.

I know many of you already have heard or suggested this before, any reason this ISN'T a good idea?

Iceland would never drift away from Norway.

 

[Jephery]

Iceland would never drift away from Norway.

Make it two sea provinces then, you could de jure drift off the Shetlands.

Personally, I turn de jure drift off completely when I'm not going for achievements.

 

[Andaries]

I know many of you already have heard or suggested this before, any reason this ISN'T a good idea?

If an empire crusades for kingdom of Jerusalem from say HRE and holds it a century it is clearly their de jur territory.

 

[Vishaing]

There's already a setting in Defines for this.
Don't remember what exactly it's called though, but if you search for "Jure" or "Drift" it should come up eventually.

 

[User29]

If an empire crusades for kingdom of Jerusalem from say HRE and holds it a century it is clearly their de jur territory.

How about Empire Tier titles just needing coastline as should the target kingdom.

and by coastline the same "ocean" coastline, since not sharing a mutual body of water is as good as being landlocked.

 

[yequr]

No. I love wacky de jure drift. Also, if you first conquer duchy 1 which borders your kingdom, and from there take duchy 2 that doesn't, why should that second duchy take 200 years instead? Drift times are long enough as is.

 

[User29]

No. I love wacky de jure drift. Also, if you first conquer duchy 1 which borders your kingdom, and from there take duchy 2 that doesn't, why should that second duchy take 200 years instead? Drift times are long enough as is.

then why not just require bordering another duchy drifting, that way you could drift whole kingdoms into your kingdom at a time. Say Tengri Turkestan taking all of Khiva at once would have all the duchies begin to drift since they all either border Turkestan or border a duchy drifting into Turkestan.

 

[Velorian]

From the Defines file:
" ALLOW_DE_JURE_ASSIMILATION_ANYWHERE = 0, -- If set to 0, will only assimilate duchy titles which contain the assimilating Kingdom's capital or border existing de jure land of that title"

In Vanilla it's set to 1 of course.
Anyway I completely agree with your preference and it baffles me that it isn't the standard setting, but the option IS there with a simple edit in a mod.

 

[Velorian]

then why not just require bordering another duchy drifting, that way you could drift whole kingdoms into your kingdom at a time. Say Tengri Turkestan taking all of Khiva at once would have all the duchies begin to drift since they all either border Turkestan or border a duchy drifting into Turkestan.

Well that'd be better than nothing though I prefer 1 duchy at a time. There is no reason why it should be a fast process, you can still drift kingdom titles into empires but several layers of duchies into a kingdom all at once doesn't really make sense.

I suppose the argument for it would be gameplay but I don't agree that it's an improvement there either.

 

[Andaries]

How about Empire Tier titles just needing coastline as should the target kingdom.

and by coastline the same "ocean" coastline, since not sharing a mutual body of water is as good as being landlocked.

Ehh, I would say just not do anything to change kingdom drift to empires. A distant kingdom being controlled 100% by a distant empire for 100 years is not easy and whole kingdoms do not make to much of a confused borders as a duchy would.

then why not just require bordering another duchy drifting, that way you could drift whole kingdoms into your kingdom at a time. Say Tengri Turkestan taking all of Khiva at once would have all the duchies begin to drift since they all either border Turkestan or border a duchy drifting into Turkestan.

I am not sure duchies are set up in a way to properly tell the difference in the way you suggest about drifts. (not saying it couldn't be changed to were they would but if they are not set up to tell the difference it will take a bit of work and would have to be a new free patch feature for a dlc and has stopped at that point being a simple suggestion.)

edit:

Well that'd be better than nothing though I prefer 1 duchy at a time. There is no reason why it should be a fast process, you can still drift kingdom titles into empires but several layers of duchies into a kingdom all at once doesn't really make sense.

I suppose the argument for it would be gameplay but I don't agree that it's an improvement there either.

It isn't a fast processes all ready 100 years is a long time for nothing going wrong.

The vanilla game for example: only covers 1066 to 1450 that's less then 400 years and any conquest after 1349 will not finish the drift.

Giving only 283 years of time to drift in the vanilla game.

 

[Tuerai]

Just reporting in to say I disagree and I prefer the way it currently works.

Think about 100 years for de jure drift really.

By the end of those 100 years, nobody still living will remember a time when that land was controlled by anyone else.

There will be multiple generations alive that that only know the new land as part of their ruler's rightful territory.

The ruler himself will have ruled over it his entire reign, and it was most likely that way during the entire reign of his predecessor.

It's just how real progress happens. Once the bitter old people are dead, nobody minds anymore.

 

[User29]

Ehh, I would say just not do anything to change kingdom drift to empires. A distant kingdom being controlled 100% by a distant empire for 100 years is not easy and whole kingdoms do not make to much of a confused borders as a duchy would.

I think a lot of people would agree with me that seeing Afghanistan de jure Arabian Empire but the rest of Persia not... would be... annoying. and the change would be fairly minor elsewhere.

I am not sure duchies are set up in a way to properly tell the difference in the way you suggest about drifts. (not saying it couldn't be changed to were they would but if they are not set up to tell the difference it will take a bit of work and would have to be a new free patch feature for a dlc and has stopped at that point being a simple suggestion.)

edit: It isn't a fast processes all ready 100 years is a long time for nothing going wrong.

I admit that would probably require an addition to the current mechanics, and that makes any action on the devs part nearly impossible so I'm back to thinking only stuff that borders you since if you limit it to any duchy in the bordering kingdom you will get the Duchy of Aragon in France without even sharing a land border... which is funky...

maybe the rule can be bypassed if you control ALL the duchies within a kingdom and thereby de jure drifting them all at once.

 

[Alliegorical]

Well that'd be better than nothing though I prefer 1 duchy at a time. There is no reason why it should be a fast process, you can still drift kingdom titles into empires but several layers of duchies into a kingdom all at once doesn't really make sense.

What? Why should some land take an extra 100 years to be considered de jure territory of mine simply because of it's on the other side of the other duchy that's also drifting? It makes no rational sense. If the king of France holds all of Aquitaine (and the kingdom of Aquitaine title doesn't exist) for 100 years, it should all become de jure France.

 

[User29]

Just reporting in to say I disagree and I prefer the way it currently works.

Think about 100 years for de jure drift really.

By the end of those 100 years, nobody still living will remember a time when that land was controlled by anyone else.

There will be multiple generations alive that that only know the new land as part of their ruler's rightful territory.

The ruler himself will have ruled over it his entire reign, and it was most likely that way during the entire reign of his predecessor.

It's just how real progress happens. Once the bitter old people are dead, nobody minds anymore.

You think it's realistic that the Duchy of Saxony feels more at home with France than with Germany? Even when everyone around them is German, they're German, and France is Latin.

 

[Velorian]

It isn't a fast processes all ready 100 years is a long time for nothing going wrong.

The vanilla game for example: only covers 1066 to 1450 that's less then 400 years and any conquest after 1349 will not finish the drift.

Giving only 283 years of time to drift in the vanilla game.

For a fundemental change like this it's fast enough in my opinion. There are not supposed to be large changes in duchy to kingdom De Jures at all. For empire building kingdom to empire De Jure still works at any range.

That's just my opinion though, thankfully the option is there for me to mod it in.

What? Why should some land take an extra 100 years to be considered de jure territory of mine simply because of it's on the other side of the other duchy that's also drifting? It makes no rational sense. If the king of France holds all of Aquitaine (and the kingdom of Aquitaine title doesn't exist) for 100 years, it should all become de jure France.

Sure it does. It makes sense because the only reason the first duchy is drifting is because it's neighbours to the integrated one, leads to increased pressure and allows the process to be slow, which it should be. The ones further in will for a long time see you as a foreign ruler. As I see it it emulates history far better than the alternative.

Just reporting in to say I disagree and I prefer the way it currently works.

Think about 100 years for de jure drift really.

By the end of those 100 years, nobody still living will remember a time when that land was controlled by anyone else.

There will be multiple generations alive that that only know the new land as part of their ruler's rightful territory.

The ruler himself will have ruled over it his entire reign, and it was most likely that way during the entire reign of his predecessor.

It's just how real progress happens. Once the bitter old people are dead, nobody minds anymore.

You underestimate peoples ability to remember the good old days. It doesn't matter if anyone actually lived back then it's still being remembered because the mindset from the beginning was to resist.

Not in a nationalistic sense of course, but in a stubborn anti-foreign pro-tradition kind of way. The problem is that which kingdom each duchy belongs to is kind of a fundamental sense of identity that shouldn't change as easily as for example which empire a kingdom belongs to. One line of duchies per 100 years is quite fast enough IMO.

 

[Yvanoff]

I use a standard that I saw in mod: no de jure drift anywhere (easy as velorian stated above), 50 years for drifting (only for duchies)
why it is the standard of vanilla is beyond me, but it's easy to mod so I don't think it's that much of a problem anyway. plus you get used to ugly borders really fast in this game and at least the de jure map is coherent with the border gore that always happen in game

 

[Kljunas]

You think it's realistic that the Duchy of Saxony feels more at home with France than with Germany? Even when everyone around them is German, they're German, and France is Latin.

I agree with drift being limited to neighbouring titles, but I don't think de jure is supposed to represent where people feel more at home.

 

[User29]

I agree with drift being limited to neighbouring titles, but I don't think de jure is supposed to represent where people feel more at home.

However it does mean everyone around agrees that legally Saxony which is german and borders nothing near France is bound to a Kingdom far away from it, no way would this ever happen in history, not without complex treaties allowing access through lands that aren't controlled de jure. something that wouldn't make sense for the Middle Ages, and I know Duchies were all over the place, especially in the HRE, but we're talking about legal boundaries and foreigners agreeing to them, not legal boundaries within a set area like legal borders inside the HRE.

 

[AchedTeacher]

If an empire crusades for kingdom of Jerusalem from say HRE and holds it a century it is clearly their de jur territory.

I mean, why is this a problem?