Silly Holy Order exploit

[Hamanu]

This is what just happened in my Sicily game.

1. A north african emir declared war on me
2. Knights Templar appear, I grab them immidiately for free maintenance (guess because of defensive war)
3. I beat the crap out of the emir but don't enforce peace.
4. DOW every arab in north africa and conquer them with free holy order (second HO appeared, grabbed them also)
5. never make peace with that first emir and you're set

LOL

 

[Marcus Septim]

lol same here playing same faction defending against same attacker and using the order troops to conquer the holy land

 

[Hamanu]

And I can't stop now or I'll be gobbled up by the Shia caliphate

 

[Sarin]

lol thats pretty bad

 

[Claudius]

Hm, I imagine the fix here would be easy to implement: Any war in which one faction has achieved 100% war score (total victory) should automatically end as soon as the defeated party capitulates. There are reasons to refuse an offer of capitulation if you're still fighting the war, such as weakening them further for your allies, but once it's over it's over. There's no reason the victor should have to agree at that point, as the only reason he wouldn't would be to game the system.

There'd still be the potential for exploitation, but at least at 99% war score the opposing side still gets soldiers from some holding, somewhere, however small, and could potentially get enough for a siege.

 

[Rambo]

They are a bit overpowered IMO but, kind of needed if you play any kind of oriental kindgom. I played aleppo in the 3rd crusade timeline, and seriously Jerusalem is getting invaded by every muslim kingdom in the middle east basically non stop. Without powerful holy orders it would be gone instantly. Especially when you consider almost all your provinces are different culture, different religion.

 

[N Katsyev]

I was relying on HO's in Iberia too and eventually (mid 13th century) even they weren't enough when the Moors were coming with 40k armies. So in the very beginning they can seem more "OP" than they actually are. Maybe they should scale?

 

[MasterofMagic]

Nothing like playing with exploits and gamey tactics huh? You go boys and girls you go! lol

 

[Hamanu]

Nothing like playing with exploits and gamey tactics huh? You go boys and girls you go! lol

You know what they say: In love and war...

And this is war!

Besides, its not like the templars mind killing heathens LOL

 

[Poddster]

They (maybe mercs as well?) should count as levies for war-starting purposes? Or add a new rule "no holy order raised".

 

[Zaku]

They (maybe mercs as well?) should count as levies for war-starting purposes? Or add a new rule "no holy order raised".

Or, just you know, don't exploit if you don't like it.

 

[Taiisatai64]

Hm, I imagine the fix here would be easy to implement: Any war in which one faction has achieved 100% war score (total victory) should automatically end as soon as the defeated party capitulates. There are reasons to refuse an offer of capitulation if you're still fighting the war, such as weakening them further for your allies, but once it's over it's over. There's no reason the victor should have to agree at that point, as the only reason he wouldn't would be to game the system.

There'd still be the potential for exploitation, but at least at 99% war score the opposing side still gets soldiers from some holding, somewhere, however small, and could potentially get enough for a siege.

Hey, here's a simpler solution.

Game checks to see if you're in an offensive war against Muslims.

If check finds that you are, Holy Order is no longer free.

 

[Tamas]

This is the kind of thing the devs shouldn't waste time trying to fix, not right now anyways. Because there is a pretty easy fix present already: DON'T USE THE EXPLOIT.

 

[Taiisatai64]

This is the kind of thing the devs shouldn't waste time trying to fix, not right now anyways. Because there is a pretty easy fix present already: DON'T USE THE EXPLOIT.

Pretty sure fixing it involves adding a line or two of text in a file somewhere. It really isn't that hard.

 

[Zigster]

So this is what happened to me. I'm playing as Ireland and suddenly I got 5k gold and a whole bunch of muslim chaps arrived at my court, and then I suddenly had 80k troops in the holy land. I was like... wtf just happened?? I think I clicked the notice without reading it properly because I didn't see any real reason for all these troops. I thought it was for a crusade or something, but I didn't seem to be at war with anyone. So I just marched them across to Granada and waged war on the morrocan guy and took seville and tangiers, now they're just sitting in seville in case any rebels pop up. Very strange! 80k troops and no upkeep fees. Very handy... but... bit OP?

 

[Captain Gars]

So this is what happened to me. I'm playing as Ireland and suddenly I got 5k gold and a whole bunch of muslim chaps arrived at my court, and then I suddenly had 80k troops in the holy land. I was like... wtf just happened?? I think I clicked the notice without reading it properly because I didn't see any real reason for all these troops. I thought it was for a crusade or something, but I didn't seem to be at war with anyone. So I just marched them across to Granada and waged war on the morrocan guy and took seville and tangiers, now they're just sitting in seville in case any rebels pop up. Very strange! 80k troops and no upkeep fees. Very handy... but... bit OP?

Are you playing the demo or the full game?

 

[Tegus]

We will probably just change it so that when you are an attacker in a war, you pay the upkeep, disregarding if you are also defending. That way only true defensive wars are possible with no upkeep.

 

[Taiisatai64]

We will probably just change it so that when you are an attacker in a war, you pay the upkeep, disregarding if you are also defending. That way only true defensive wars are possible with no upkeep.

You see, I am genius. Or psychic. Not sure which.

 

[Hamanu]

But, but... our official policy is that we're either defending or liberating. Being good christians, we Normans of Sicily don't even have a concept of "offensive" warfare.

 

[unmerged(164239)]

Hm, I imagine the fix here would be easy to implement: Any war in which one faction has achieved 100% war score (total victory) should automatically end as soon as the defeated party capitulates.

Good idea but, in holy war you need to occupy, whole claim to get it. And 100% war score can fire before you have all claimed provinces occupied.

We will probably just change it so that when you are an attacker in a war, you pay the upkeep, disregarding if you are also defending. That way only true defensive wars are possible with no upkeep.

There is another exploit with not signing peace in defensive war, at last in demo. You get +30 opinion and your pretenders don't start civil war. So no reason to make a peace.