Siberian natives

[herrmarisa]

They seem to develop quite well technology-wise because they have the Chinese group (while American natives have their own tech group). I don't mean to offend anyone, but this time I'm completely unsure about their ability to develop beyond the stone age. Even nowadays they live in the same environment. Thoughts?

 

[herrmarisa]

By the beginning of the XVIII-th century, the number of Chukchi was around 8-9 thousand persons. In their letters, Cossacks divided the inhabitants of the Chukchi Peninsula into "deer hunters", "passive ones" and "active ones" (probably meaning Siberian Eskimos with the latter). They were involved in hunting, reindeer and fishing and they haven't left the stone age yet. Wooden, stone and bone tools had only started being replaced with iron ones in the XVIII-th century by gaining it via trade or raids on other tribes or Russians. The archaism of their economy is complemented with underdevelopment of public relations. The Cossack Boris Kuznetsky who lived captive among the Chukchi in 1754-1756 reported the following in his "Recital on the Chukchi land": "the described Chukchi don't have anyone ruling over them, but any man lives around their relatives and a higher status in their society is only gained by the number of deers in possession, but they don't set these men high either for they are ready to kill them for any seemingly upsetting thing".

A translated excerpt from here http://zaimka.ru/to_sun/chukchi.shtml

 

[Apolojuice]

They might live in the same environment right now, but I am pretty sure due to some news coming from the Steppes, Japan, Qing, and Korea, they at least knew what a wheel was by 1500.

 

[Mikalos]

Does it matter?

 

[herrmarisa]

Does it matter?

Of course it does. The game is not only about Europeans.

 

[Clownie]

Does it matter?

It's about as egregious as an Andean Norway would be. Norway just gets annexed every game and never achieves anything anyway, but it'd still be annoying to see them be absurdly bad at technology.

Same way the Siberians are absurdly good.

 

[SignedName]

Eh, they always get annexed anyway. Wouldn't be averse to putting them in the Nomad Tech group, though.

 

[Mikalos]

It's about as egregious as an Andean Norway would be. Norway just gets annexed every game and never achieves anything anyway, but it'd still be annoying to see them be absurdly bad at technology.

Same way the Siberians are absurdly good.

but does it matter that the siberians have slightly better tech on russian/iberian arrival than the north americans do on iberian arrival?

Of course it does. The game is not only about Europeans.

i don't follow

 

[riknap]

i don't follow

many people, especially those following the series for a long time, like to play non-Europe countries. and many of the mechanics are biased towards European countries (for good and/or bad reasons, depending on your perspective on the matter)

 

[Mikalos]

many people, especially those following the series for a long time, like to play non-Europe countries. and many of the mechanics are biased towards European countries (for good and/or bad reasons, depending on your perspective on the matter)

Yes i know, but i dont follow how saying "people want to play not europe" follows from complaining that non europe is "doing too good"

 

[herrmarisa]

I just want to have the area to be correct, it doesn't mean that it needs to do better than it historically did to be less biased towards Europe.

 

[Mikalos]

I just want to have the area to be correct, it doesn't mean that it needs to do better than it historically did to be less biased towards Europe.

how is it at all biased towards europe?

 

[Novacat]

how is it at all biased towards europe?

Well, anything that comes even close to challenging europe gets ruthlessly nerfed.

They seem to develop quite well technology-wise because they have the Chinese group (while American natives have their own tech group). I don't mean to offend anyone, but this time I'm completely unsure about their ability to develop beyond the stone age. Even nowadays they live in the same environment. Thoughts?

Note that the Siberians get a worse government than the Native Americans... to explain.
Siberian Council: -33% Stability Cost, +15% Technology Cost (note that they are already paying the same amount for tech as Hordes are)
Native Council: -33% Stability Cost, -50% Land Maintenance Cost

Note that Native Councils also get access to Native Ideas which give a huge number of bonuses.

 

[Mikalos]

Well, anything that comes even close to challenging europe gets ruthlessly nerfed.
.

uh huh...

 

[herrmarisa]

Can't they just have the horde tech group at least?

 

[Novacat]

Can't they just have the horde tech group at least?

They already have the same tech penalty as hordes.

 

[Gunnarr]

Be careful with talking about changing technology!

In CKII, they had a method that technology spread over time over land, which at least kept somewhat historical technologies and spread (nomads did not know much about building complex architecture or ships, peoples of modern russia not knowing how to build stone buildings before around the period of christianization)

but then Johan and the gang find a way to "improve it", to make it more fun!

Now the entire world basically has similar technology very quickly, nomads know how to build magnificent cathedrals and the like


So, be happy with what you have, and hope they do not try to "innovate" too much...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

They already have the same tech penalty as hordes.

Arguably worse, they do have a nice -stab cost but they pay more for tech and don't have the horde bonuses to show for it, and while they can westernize w/o reform they can't actually swap into competent governments w/o reforming first, but they really need to take exploration first to westernize in a decent timeframe.

In AI hands, these nations are cursed forever to do nothing, so the complaints regarding them are odd indeed.