Siam unification decision- everyday until it gets it

[anomanderus]

Because the things that get the most attention on the forums are what get in to the next beta patches, I was thinking of pressing the case for the Siam unification decision- a union of Thai cultures. Currently, southeast asia is boring, especially since it turns out you can only get the "Lama" title if you are Tibetan culture. But it doesn't have to be boring, if Paradox would implement a decision for the unification of Thai cultures. Wouldn't that be fun and flavorful guys?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Because the things that get the most attention on the forums are what get in to the next beta patches, I was thinking of pressing the case for the Siam unification decision- a union of Thai cultures. Currently, southeast asia is boring, especially since it turns out you can only get the "Lama" title if you are Tibetan culture. But it doesn't have to be boring, if Paradox would implement a decision for the unification of Thai cultures. Wouldn't that be fun and flavorful guys?

I think this would definitely be a move in the right direction, A Siam nation (modeled after Thaksin's Thonburi Kingdom) with a unified would certainly not only make things interesting but also give a goal for anybody playing the SE Asian Thai minors, especially against Ming.

 

[JCFast]

If you want it that bad couldn't you just mod it in? I mean I see no real reason to have it in. I mean you two guys are probably the only two interested in playing with SE Asian Thai minors...

 

[GregElSho]

Why would they? Is EUIII a game that stops being interesting outside france, austria and castille?

I've played a lot of games out of the mains blobs, including several ones in asia, and I think that kind of idea would spice things up. Africa and America are pretty quiet (and such a unification wouldn't make much sense), but Asia could indeed use some greater nations to oppose Ming a little. Siam is a perfect choice.

 

[unmerged(81391)]

I thought Ayutthaya WAS Siam?

 

[Dafool]

I thought Ayutthaya WAS Siam?

They are. So technically, the "Siamese Nation" already exists in essence. I think Anomanderus is probably looking to give any Thai nation a sort of union option though, mainly because there's not much else to do in the region except not die at the hands of Ming China. I agree with the general idea. I modded this into the game in an earlier version. It does make SE Asia a bit more interesting, especially since the AI may actually form it given the way that region tends to act in game.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

I really don't care if they patch Oompaloompaland in and throw it into Malian decisions, changing your military into orange-faced midgets who flee from vermicious knids.

As long as they keep the new stuff coming I'm good.

 

[unmerged(150720)]

Well again, the game is called Europa Universalis... But i agree

 

[unmerged(11600)]

The OP's premise is wrong, though: it's not what gets discussed here that makes it into the patches/expansions, it's what people have created mods to cover. So create a Siam_nation mod and post it in the User Mods forum.

-Pat

 

[unmerged(101035)]

Most mods (in fact all I have every played and recall offhand) never include the tax penalty elimination for unification. I don't remember if this is because you can't mod that part or if it is just hardly ever included in a mod, but this is one reason why it would be great if many unification decisions were added. I don't think that things like "The New Roman Empire" or "European Union" really have any reason to make it to vanilla, but India, Thailand, Malaysia, Romania off the top of my head may as well be added to vanilla and not relegated to mod material in my opinion.

Arabia is another right off the top of my head, though all the provinces involved already have the same culture in game.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I thought Ayutthaya WAS Siam?

No, they're not the same thing, Ayutthaya was just avery large, poerful Thai state and really had no long term ambitions to rule over every single Thai state. It took the complete collapse of the Ayutthaya Kingdom to disintegrate into a bunch of feuding, self-interested principalities before being unified by a Chinese merchant named Thaksin who reabsorbed and expanding his rule from his capital Thonburi. It was then followed by the Rattanakosin Kingdom which still exists today. Therefore 'Siam' is more of a concept of a state, much like how we have 'Persia' as a country when infact it was a series of post Mongol dynasties. Since Thais never called themselves Siam (Cambodians did call them 'Siem' though) it should be used to represent what was a new era of post feudal Thai states that had the ambition to conquer its neighbors and to attempt to unify Thai, Shan and Laotian Tai peoples until the French showed up and ruined their party.

The same can ALSO be said about the Burma, having a Burmese cultural Union would be a powerful and interesting thing to have as well. We have Taungoo and Pegu but it was the unification of Burma Konbaung Dynasty that unified Burma.

 

[Dafool]

No, they're not the same thing, Ayutthaya was just avery large, poerful Thai state and really had no long term ambitions to rule over every single Thai state.

Well, Ayutthaya is Siam. What we call Siam was the Ayutthaya kingdom. That being said, it wasn't really a pan-Thai state or anything, it was just a powerful nation in the area. The "Siam" proposed in the topic is more of a "Thailandesque" state that's supposed to be a union of most of the SE Asian cultures.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Well, Ayutthaya is Siam. What we call Siam was the Ayutthaya kingdom. That being said, it wasn't really a pan-Thai state or anything, it was just a powerful nation in the area. The "Siam" proposed in the topic is more of a "Thailandesque" state that's supposed to be a union of most of the SE Asian cultures.

In international diplomacy there was a Siam but in reality, especially on the ground, Ayutthaya was just the biggest Thai state around and with te nicest ports. If we are talking about Siam as a functioning entity, especially From a socio-historical period the Siam we understand today started with the Thonburi Kingdom in the late 18th century. You can't really call Musocvy 'Russia' or England 'Great Britain' so early in their history, the same can be applied Ayutthaya. Sure there was an 'idea' of 'Russia' and 'Britain' in the vague geographical sense but these states made it a reality. The same in the transition from the Ayutthaya kingdom into the Thonburi Kingdom and so on.

 

[Dafool]

In international diplomacy there was a Siam but in reality, especially on the ground, Ayutthaya was just the biggest Thai state around and with te nicest ports. If we are talking about Siam as a functioning entity, especially From a socio-historical period the Siam we understand today started with the Thonburi Kingdom in the late 18th century. You can't really call Musocvy 'Russia' or England 'Great Britain' so early in their history, the same can be applied Ayutthaya. Sure there was an 'idea' of 'Russia' and 'Britain' in the vague geographical sense but these states made it a reality. The same in the transition from the Ayutthaya kingdom into the Thonburi Kingdom and so on.

Siam, at least to the west, described a sort of area centered around the Ayutthaya kingdom. It may not have always referred to the kingdom, but it referred to the general entity and area, regardless of if it was actually "Siam" or not. That's why I said there would need to be a Thai union nation, which really never existed, since Ayutthaya doesn't really represent a Thai nation any more than Brandenburg represents Germany or Milan represents Italy. What such a union should be called is beyond me though.

 

[Belnor]

I'd be interested in playing this concept of a Siam/Thai unification. Would like to try a mod if anybody decides to take it on.

Belnor.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Siam, at least to the west, described a sort of area centered around the Ayutthaya kingdom. It may not have always referred to the kingdom, but it referred to the general entity and area, regardless of if it was actually "Siam" or not. That's why I said there would need to be a Thai union nation, which really never existed, since Ayutthaya doesn't really represent a Thai nation any more than Brandenburg represents Germany or Milan represents Italy. What such a union should be called is beyond me though.

Well, lets just forget about this debate since we're pretty much on the same wavelength (although I still disagree with your statement, to the Europeans Siam was just a region, just like how 'Russia' was just a region even though there were many states in it), there should probably be a Thai Union. 'Siam' is a nice, easy to recognize name to encompass such a state and the fact is, there is no Siam country or tag in the country list so its probably the simplest solution unless you want to go for an anachronistic 'Thailand' or an over specific 'Rattanakosin' country.

 

[Dafool]

Well, lets just forget about this debate since we're pretty much on the same wavelength (although I still disagree with your statement, to the Europeans Siam was just a region, just like how 'Russia' was just a region even though there were many states in it), there should probably be a Thai Union. 'Siam' is a nice, easy to recognize name to encompass such a state and the fact is, there is no Siam country or tag in the country list so its probably the simplest solution unless you want to go for an anachronistic 'Thailand' or an over specific 'Rattanakosin' country.

Yeah, I generally agree with what you're saying. Ayutthuya was more or less a kingdom that existed in what was called Siam. It wasn't actually Siam, but it was the largest and most prominent entity in what was called Siam. I agree that "Siam" as a name is probably the easiest fix, but it still feels a little off. It's kind of like having Byzantium form the Roman Empire. It's sort of throwing a label that's a little out of place on a nation just to give it some flavor. Thailand just feels far too modern, so I'd personally throw that out right off the bat.

 

[GregElSho]

Although it's mainly a Thaï entity, Siam pretty much encompassed SE Asia entirely, so I don't see the name "Siam" as a problem.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

 

[anomanderus]

treadbump for the purposes of publicity. Make it happen paradox!