Siam took Malaysia?

[TheMoe]

I'm watching a very recent playthrough on YouTube, where the player is Japan, and Siam is an ally. The player invaded Malaysia with Japanese troops stationed in Siam (naval invade from the independent country of Siam), and to my and the player's surprise, Siam took Malaysia. It wasn't in a peace conference or anything. Malaysia capitulated and suddenly it was the color of Siam and the player was unable to build in Malaysia.

He said, "It looks like it's been added to Siam. Oh, next time I'll invade from one of my countries.", which I assume means a country conquered by Japan, with the big label JAPAN across it. So, does the game work that way? If you naval invade from the territory of an ally, that the territory you conquer with your own troops goes to the ally?

I'll link the capitulation screenshot and just a moment later when he discovers that Siam is in control, then I'll link the actual video cued up to that point.

Here you can view the actual gameplay:

I went back an episode and watched the start of the battle for Malaysia, which is around the 1/2 way point in episode 33 (I linked episode 34, with screen shots from episode 34), and it appears to me that there are about 12 Siam divisions and 37 Japanese (player) divisions simultaneously attacking Malaysia. I'm still a little confused as to why Siam controls Malaysia, though.

What would be the correct way to attack Malaysia if the player desired control and the ability to build infrastructure and radar installations?

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Siam has a land connection to the continental Malaysian state (confusingly called Singapore) so they get the control.

 

[TheMoe]

Siam has a land connection to the continental Malaysian state (confusingly called Singapore) so they get the control.

Oh. How interesting. Thank you. So the answer to the question is to not take allies if you want to conquer Malaysia yourself, prior to the peace conference.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Oh. How interesting. Thank you. So the answer to the question is to not take allies if you want to conquer Malaysia yourself, prior to the peace conference.

Or you can request control of state from them most of the time

 

[TheMoe]

Or you can request control of state from them most of the time

How fascinating! How do you do that? Good to know that's an option!

 

[afb]

It's a diplomatic option. The AI still wants to get some territory and they will rarely give up their only conquest. Sometimes it helps giving them control over something else and then you can get the one you want, but I'm not sure how exactly it is calculated. If you're not playing on ironman, I'd suggest saving the game and trying out what you need to give them to secure Malaysia.

 

[kettyo]

Occupation by default goes to whoever can deliver the most supplies.

Siam can get supplies there from their capital by land while Japan has to deliver through the sea so Siam is an obvious winner here.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Siam has a land connection to the continental Malaysian state (confusingly called Singapore) so they get the control.

Except when they don't, there are lots of not-so-obvious rules regarding occupation and a few things that straight up don't make sense.

For example if Japan had placed a claim on the state he attacked and Siam lacked a claim there, he could occupy the state himself rather than passing it to Siam. It is also possible to out-contribute (though war score is broken by design too) and request control of the state, and there are ways to heavily abuse this in many-nation factions to get the AI to give you 80%+ of the controlled states with < 10% of the contribution (though with resistance YMMV on which provinces you actually want).

It's a diplomatic option. The AI still wants to get some territory and they will rarely give up their only conquest. Sometimes it helps giving them control over something else and then you can get the one you want, but I'm not sure how exactly it is calculated.

"Too much land" vs not is based on war contribution/score, which is itself a broken mechanic unfortunately. So you have to game it if you want to get full value.

Occupation by default goes to whoever can deliver the most supplies.

Not so much.

 

[kettyo]

Not so much.

Maybe not always working as intended but that's how it supposed to do.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Here are the rules reverse engineered by bitmode:

Assigning Ownership of Captured Territory

I'm hoping someone can explain exactly how the AI makes these decisions. I'm currently playing Raj/India, and it's 1947. After saving China from the Japanese earlier in the game, I sent my troops to liberate Greece, and while they were away...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Here are the rules reverse engineered by bitmode:

Assigning Ownership of Captured Territory

I'm hoping someone can explain exactly how the AI makes these decisions. I'm currently playing Raj/India, and it's 1947. After saving China from the Japanese earlier in the game, I sent my troops to liberate Greece, and while they were away...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Yes but as he notes elsewhere, those aren't the full rules, just the ones that applied in my scenario. You can, for example, make a few well placed claims on USSR and call Japan in on them, do nothing, and get control of every province in Russia transferred to you as a result even if only Japan + its subjects take land there. They will take land and give it to you automatically due to the claims, then since they are conquering from your land they keep giving it to you. Doing nothing won't give you war score but for the duration of that fighting whatever production is captured is all yours.

 

[TheMoe]

It's a diplomatic option. The AI still wants to get some territory and they will rarely give up their only conquest. Sometimes it helps giving them control over something else and then you can get the one you want, but I'm not sure how exactly it is calculated. If you're not playing on ironman, I'd suggest saving the game and trying out what you need to give them to secure Malaysia.

Thank you! That's very helpful information. Now I know the AI is a closet hoarder. J

 

[TheMoe]

Occupation by default goes to whoever can deliver the most supplies.

Siam can get supplies there from their capital by land while Japan has to deliver through the sea so Siam is an obvious winner here.

Oh, now that makes sense! Thank you!

 

[TheMoe]

Except when they don't, there are lots of not-so-obvious rules regarding occupation and a few things that straight up don't make sense.

For example if Japan had placed a claim on the state he attacked and Siam lacked a claim there, he could occupy the state himself rather than passing it to Siam. It is also possible to out-contribute (though war score is broken by design too) and request control of the state, and there are ways to heavily abuse this in many-nation factions to get the AI to give you 80%+ of the controlled states with < 10% of the contribution (though with resistance YMMV on which provinces you actually want).



"Too much land" vs not is based on war contribution/score, which is itself a broken mechanic unfortunately. So you have to game it if you want to get full value.



Not so much.

Thank you. This was all before the peace conference. It does seem there are quite a few hidden mechanics in the game. Clearly the tuber knows much more about the game than I do, and he was confused as to why he lost Malaysia.

 

[TheMoe]

Yes but as he notes elsewhere, those aren't the full rules, just the ones that applied in my scenario. You can, for example, make a few well placed claims on USSR and call Japan in on them, do nothing, and get control of every province in Russia transferred to you as a result even if only Japan + its subjects take land there. They will take land and give it to you automatically due to the claims, then since they are conquering from your land they keep giving it to you. Doing nothing won't give you war score but for the duration of that fighting whatever production is captured is all yours.

Oh. Now I understand about the claims part. Yes, I recall seeing an option to make claims on land when you're preparing to declare war on someone. It's an option that few players tend to use, at least those who stream, because in their mind it's only necessary to claim one province to get the war they want. I see how it can be used now, though. Thank you!