Shouldn't the Auriel religion be called the Aldmeri Pantheon or something?
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Like the Aldmeri Dominion doesn't consist of all of elven-kind? I'd say Aldmeri is more used to describe Bosmer, Altmer and Ayleids, especially the latter two.
The Aldmeri Dominion only had Altmer and Bosmer as elves, the Orcs and Dunmer weren't under them, and Khajiit only count as Elven if you agree with their creation myth about being related to Bosmer.
Aldmeri literally means 'of the Aldmer', as in the original Elven race. Altmer took the Aldmeri Dominon as they were the most closely related to the Aldmer and being Aldmeri presumably was prestigious as the Altmer seemed to have glorified the Aldmer *cough* Aldmeris *cough*
Aldmeri Pantheon seems a good name for the Pantheon since the Pantheon was that of the Aldmer.
Y'ffre however, is a Bosmer 'name' for the Deity, Jephre. ESO is never a reliable source, as said here, though.
It wasn't the pantheon of the Aldmer though, it was the pantheon of the early Altmer, who altmer call Aldmer because it helps them claim themselves as the only heirs of the Aldmer. But some of the aedra and most of the ranking and basic myths come from the early conflicts, in history after they left Aldmeris.
The gods are also the ancestors, the kings and generals who lead the elves in the war against the humans. Were they the actual gods in those days more active as elves were closer to them? The royalty of Aldmeris or completely different characters who have later been established as the same? Who knows, the lore doesn't go into it.
But the Pantheon itself and most of what defines the beliefs, society, culture, traditions and etc of the Altmer defined by Auri-el in game, is what developed AFTER they arrived in their current home. Not the unchanged orthodoxy that was found in the long lost homeland. The beliefs of the Aldmer are the root sure, but not what it is.
Aside from the fact that Aldmeris probably doesn't exist, that's largely irrelevant- the followers of the 'Auriel' religion would believe the 'early Altmer' to be Aldmer (regardless of what really happened, wether you are correct or not, it's a debate for another day), so Aldmeri Pantheon is a decent name so far as the Aldmeri Dominion is.
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Read my post with the quote from our localization for Auri-el. Auri-el = Aldmeri Pantheon. And Aldmeri Pantheon is a horrible name for the religion. The Greek Gods of Olympus were called Olympians not the Greek Pantheon.
True, the Aldmeri consists of the Altmers and Bosmers, but its not because Aldmeri is used to describe the two. Aldmeri is used to reference all Mer kind who have their origins in Aldmeris, just like Nedic is used to describe all the Men who are descended from Atmora.
And the Aldmeri Dominion is more like the Holy Roman Empire. It is a grandiose name, chosen to give more legitimacy to the political construction.
I thought the HRE was chosen because it was literally the successor of the Roman Empire in the Papacy's eyes (hence the Holy).
But those who stayed true, more or less, to the Aldmeri ways, were the Altmer. The rest of the Aldmer left to follow false gods or something to that effect- the reason for Elves ever leaving the Summerset Isles is because of some rebellious attitude against the Ald(/t)mer ways, IIRC.
The Altmer may not be Aldmer, but in their eyes, they're the closest thing to Aldmer.
But those who stayed true, more or less, to the Aldmeri ways, were the Altmer. The rest of the Aldmer left to follow false gods or something to that effect- the reason for Elves ever leaving the Summerset Isles is because of some rebellious attitude against the Ald(/t)mer ways, IIRC.
The Altmer may not be Aldmer, but in their eyes, they're the closest thing to Aldmer.
The HRE was chosen because Otto was up himself, later it developed into meaning highest secular authority in the world but it never meant, literally Rome. The Aldermi Dominion was chosen as a name as an 'Altmer Empire' would have no CB to conquer the universe, if they claim to be the heirs of the Aldmer then where elves have ever stood, there they have cause to conquer.
Mostly the rest of the Altmer left the Isles for political reasons, the Velothi migration (Dunmer and some of the Orsimer) are the only religiously motivated, the Bosmer, Aylieds, Falmer and etc all left the Isles over political disagreements or a desire to see new lands/pioneering spirit etc. Then after they'd been gone a few generations got branded impure by the Altmer authorities and iver centuries differences evolved.
Also the Maormer arrived direct from Aldermis, the same as the first Altmer did. And they have no connection to the Auri-el Religion, as they were never shaped by the wars against the followers of Padomay/Lorkhan and their ancestors never followed the traditions that developed in the Summerset Isles, so they're 'Aldmeric' but not remotely of the same religion/society/worldview as the Altmer.
Mostly the rest of the Altmer left the Isles for political reasons, the Velothi migration (Dunmer and some of the Orsimer) are the only religiously motivated, the Bosmer, Aylieds, Falmer and etc all left the Isles over political disagreements or a desire to see new lands/pioneering spirit etc. Then after they'd been gone a few generations got branded impure by the Altmer authorities and iver centuries differences evolved.
Also the Maormer arrived direct from Aldermis, the same as the first Altmer did. And they have no connection to the Auri-el Religion, as they were never shaped by the wars against the followers of Padomay/Lorkhan and their ancestors never followed the traditions that developed in the Summerset Isles, so they're 'Aldmeric' but not remotely of the same religion/society/worldview as the Altmer.
I was think of the Pariah Elves and Chimer, but regardless, Altmer consider themselves to be pure elves. That, in their opinion is Aldmer, so they consider themselves Aldmeri. Whether that is correct or not is irrelevant.
Aldmeris also most probably metaphorical.
Aldmeris also most probably metaphorical.
Aldmeris does not exist and never existed. The Khajiit are 'elven' in the sense they are the descendants of Aldmer whom were taken by Azura and placed in Elsweyr, and thus they would probably be most similar to the Orsimer whom were also altered by the Daedra.
Aye, there is even a sub-race of Khajiits who looks almost fully Bosmer... in truth there is also a sub-race of Khajiits who look almost fully Human as well >.>... the Khajiits have about 16 sub-races... damn cats!
As a point about retconning.
I don't recall the dragonborn being a part of TES lore before skyrim.
Also let us not forget the "warp of the west"
Also, the Khajiit are supposedly very different depending on the phase of the moon they were born. Yet all Khajiit are exactly the same barring a mod in Skyrim and those from elder scrolls I.
However problematic ESO lore may feel (and how "convenient" it is), it is still a part of the elder scrolls universe and history. Elder scrolls games seem to constantly retcon the history to fit the new game
While personally, I would not like to see a ESO lore superseding pre-ESO lore, it is set at the same time as the mod and would be an excellent source of lore for any gaps left.
I don't recall the dragonborn being a part of TES lore before skyrim.
Also let us not forget the "warp of the west"
Also, the Khajiit are supposedly very different depending on the phase of the moon they were born. Yet all Khajiit are exactly the same barring a mod in Skyrim and those from elder scrolls I.
However problematic ESO lore may feel (and how "convenient" it is), it is still a part of the elder scrolls universe and history. Elder scrolls games seem to constantly retcon the history to fit the new game
While personally, I would not like to see a ESO lore superseding pre-ESO lore, it is set at the same time as the mod and would be an excellent source of lore for any gaps left.
You're forgetting Alessia and Tiber Septim (plus their dragon-blooded descendants) and a multitude of Ancient Nordic heroes. Apart from that, I agree with you - lore is lore. Judge it if you like, it's lore nonetheless.
You're never going to see other kind of Khajiit in the games - Too many subraces with too little payoff.
I could see a TES set in elsweyr having the other subraces as NPCs/non hostile creatures.
I remember that mod for Oblivion which incorporated Elsweyr (rather successfully I might say, it was very good) that had at least 2 of the Khajit subraces (not counting the "common" variant), the Mer-like one and the giant cat/lion one. So I see no reason why Bethesda couldn't add them as NPCs or enemies if a modder could.
Much how like the original Falmer are NPCs at Skyrim (though there's a good justification for not making them playable I guess).
Much how like the original Falmer are NPCs at Skyrim (though there's a good justification for not making them playable I guess).
Hypothetically this is how it could be done:
Ohmes: Look almost like Bosmer save for their tattooed faces and smaller statue.
Ohmes-raht: Like above but with short fur.
Suthay: Smaller suthay-rahts.
Suthay-raht: In-game khajiits.
Cathay: Bulky suthay-rahts.
Cathay-raht: Super-bulky suthay-rahts.
Tojay: Nothing known.
Tojay-raht: Nothing known.
Alfiq: Intelligent housecat
Alfiq-raht: Unknown, probably larger intelligent housecat.
Dagi: Skinny and smaller suthay-rahts.
Dagi-raht: Skinny and smaller suthay-rahts, though somewhat larger.
Pahmar: A tiger, for all means and purposes.
Pahmar-raht: A larger tiger.
Senche: A rideable tiger.
Senche-raht: A larger rideable tiger (battlecat).
Mane: Exists in-game.
So what does it boil down to:
1.) Ohmes (could use Bosmer-skin for game-purposes)
2.) Ohmes-raht (could use reskinned Bosmer-Skin)
3.) Khajiits that (assumedly) look almost the same and can be represented as the same (Suthay, Suthay-raht, Cathay, Cathay-raht, Tojay, Tojay-raht, Dagi, Dagi-raht)
4.) Alfiq and Alfiq-raht (intelligent housecats without the ability to talk)
5.) Pahmar, Pahmar-raht, Senche and Senche-raht (all tigers)
6.) The Mane
Honestly though I don't know how the moon-cycle-based appearance could be worked into the game. The simplest way to do it would be to assign every Khajiit a trait according to a certain time span he was born in and stick with the same look for everyone. But then we also would need a mechanism for the Mane.
The difference is that The Elder Scrolls is a Bethesda product, so any retcons are legitimate if done by Bethesda. Zenimax Online are not Bethesda so their retcons are not legitimate.
It's little more than fan-fiction.
I'm not sure why the discussion over ESO lore is on going. MK himself has said he considers Elder Scrolls lore to be "open source", in numerous interviews the studio manager for bethesda softworks has said how much he loves the fan fiction and "expanded universe" that fans create, and we ourselves haven't said we're not going to use ESO lore, simply that it takes last place when considering what to do with certain aspects of the mod.