Shouldn't Marines be Navy units?

[Simon Marques]

I find it odd that Marines are army units instead of Navy units. Wouldn't that be the case of a mistake made by the developers?

I suggest to change this and put the Marines as navy units that would be commanded exclusively by commanders that have the Naval Invasion ability.

 

[xtfoster]

2 Reasons.
1) In game 'Army' units are ANY unit that fights on land. Historically (at least in the US) more Army units conducted amphibious assaults than Marine units. Just look at the OoB for the Normandy landings...not one Marine unit to be found, not the US Marines, and not the Royal Marines.
2) Not all Marines are controlled by the Navy. Technically even US Marines are not (normally) commanded by the Navy. The President, Secretary of Defense, and Secretary of the Navy are the only people common to both chains of command.

 

[Jays298]

The game has three modes, land, sea, and air. Land is for land units. Sea is for ships, submarines. Air is for air units.

Marines are land units with certain bonuses.

The naval mode is only for ships and naval missions.

I assume the US Marine Corp was more used in the Pacific theater and there too as land units. And they are in there as far as unit names.

 

[Simon Marques]

Historically, Marines are soldiers who specialize in amphibious attacks, are commanded by naval officers, never in any nation has there been a case in which a unit of Marines came under the command of an Army officer, at least that I know of.

Yes, the Americans did not actually use the Marines in Europe, since they were largely using their Marines In the theater of the pacific.

The only two nations to make extensive use of Marines were the Japs and the Yankees. The British seem to have used them on rare occasions. In the end, I don't think it's good the generic way they portrayed this unit so important.

I find it odd that Marines are army units instead of Navy units. Wouldn't that be the case of a mistake made by the developers?

I suggest to change this and put the Marines as navy units that would be commanded exclusively by commanders that have the Naval Invasion ability.

So from what you have been saying there is no way to change, as far as the objective is to try to simplify as much as possible, even if this dislikes a part of the consumers.

 

[STABBY5]

I find it odd that Marines are army units instead of Navy units. Wouldn't that be the case of a mistake made by the developers?

No. That would be overly obtuse. It's fine how it is.

 

[Simon Marques]

No. That would be overly obtuse. It's fine how it is.

It would not be obtuse, it would be coherent with the history of the type of unit mentioned above.

 

[STABBY5]

It would not be obtuse, it would be coherent with the history of the type of unit mentioned above, a change like this would not have any negative or positive effect, it would not imply the addition of more micro-management and it would be limited to an effect related to coherence.

Its Marine units would only change from land mode to naval mode and would no longer be commanded by army commanders, but by Admirals who have this characteristic of commanding special amphibious units.

They aren't ships and thus should not be in the naval view. You're arguing about the order of battle without considering how strange it would make the ui and how unintuitive it would be considering how the rest of the game works. Do we have to put naval air units in the naval view too? Japan had quite a few of those, and not just carrier planes. USA marines are also commanded by a General and while they are a department of the navy do not answer to the Navy, only the Department of the Navy. This is all completely moot give that most sane countries had a unified chain of command regardless of branch. General Mac Arthur Commanded fleets in the Pacific for example.

 

[George Parr]

A passing glance at the game would have told you that the only command-levels are army-groups and armies. Seeing how large those formations are in the game, you might even push them up a level. The only time an army-sized force was ever commanded by an officer from the Marines during WW2 was when Roy Geiger took over command of 10th army on Okinawa after General Buckner had died. This lasted for five days.

So no, even when disregarding the obvious problem of mixing up land and sea-command for no apparent reason, the Marines still shouldn't be under any different command than they are in the game, because the command-levels that do exist where exclusively filled by army personal.

 

[Louella]

The Royal Marines were at the Normandy landings, in a variety of roles. Not really as full divisional-sized units though, but as Commando units and parts of the various Commando Brigades that included elements from Army units as well. Some Commando brigades had Royal Marine officers in command, others had Army officers.
The overall head of the Commandos was an Admiral though, but that was more of an administrative position rather than a battlefield commanding position

 

[blue_yonder]

Your posts are always pompous appeals for 'reality' as if this were an end in itself. It isn't. In no conceivable way would gameplay be enhanced by the chaos of having to switch to the navy tab every time you want to use marines.

 

[Nelfe]

Historically, Marines are soldiers who specialize in amphibious attacks, are commanded by naval officers, never in any nation has there been a case in which a unit of Marines came under the command of an Army officer, at least that I know of.

In France we have the "Troupes de marine" (litterally "Navy Troops" with various infantry, tanks and even paratroop regiments), which are kinda like US Marines (they are specialized in overseas deployment) but they are not considered as navy units but land, and so they depend from the "Armée de Terre" not the "Marine Nationale" and are commanded by army officer.

 

[Orlunu]

pls also gib Luftwaffe Felddivisions and RAF Regiment in the airforce tab

 

[Hoi Neuling]

No it´s good like it is. They are Specialists since they founded and not 1.000.000 + Standard-Military with normal Training.

The Devs have seen what with such Specialists get done. No one build normal Infantry, motorised Infantry, mechanised Infantry etc. anymore only Paras, Marines and Mounteers. That´s why the Devs decided to limit them like it is now and never change that anymore (hard limited) . And that´s the right decission for the Game.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

pls also gib Luftwaffe Felddivisions and RAF Regiment in the airforce tab

Regarding the Luftwaffe Fielddivisions, it isn't as simple as making them an "airforce" unit. Just like making Marines a "navy" unit, it is a unnecessary change.

To reflect the Luftwaffe Fielddivisions correctly, you need manpower allocated to Luftwaffe units that currently don't have manpower allocated to them (mainly the static anti-air buildings). Then some sort of decision that pulls in additional manpower from non-standard sources (ie women, too young, too old and "whitebreads") and/or a reduction in the static anti-air buildings. This newly released manpower is what is used to form the very "green" Luftwaffe Fielddivisions.

All of the above is better handled through decisions and/or focuses. A lot of work for little gain. Haven't seen any mods that try to handle this properly.

 

[Flipity]

There is no need at all to do this at all. You can already quite easily separate them in the command structure in place.

 

[Simon Marques]

Your posts are always pompous appeals for 'reality' as if this were an end in itself. It isn't. In no conceivable way would gameplay be enhanced by the chaos of having to switch to the navy tab every time you want to use marines.

In this post specifically a call for coherence, as I said it is not coherent to place divisions of Marines under the command of army officers.

 

[blue_yonder]

You could get a thousand disagrees, all from people who've played ten times longer and ten times better, and you wouldn't even notice, would you?

 

[Orlunu]

There is no need at all to do this at all. You can already quite easily separate them in the command structure in place.

To be fair, one thing that would actually be nice would be the addition of some SNLF commanders in game.

 

[Louella]

Historically, Marines are soldiers who specialize in amphibious attacks, are commanded by naval officers, never in any nation has there been a case in which a unit of Marines came under the command of an Army officer, at least that I know of.

1st Special Service Brigade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the Commando units of the UK during the war, which included Royal Marines units alongside Army units.

 

[Louella]

pls also gib Luftwaffe Felddivisions and RAF Regiment in the airforce tab

Unironically, but a couple tiny units of armoured cars, representing the RAF Armoured Car Company units in the Middle East, would be plausible.

To be fair, one thing that would actually be nice would be the addition of some SNLF commanders in game.

I was just thinking that. Some more portraits, in the relevant uniforms, of the marine officers, give them the relevant traits to make them marine generals, and blammo, that's all you need.
People who like their immersion can assign their marine units to those officers, while people who don't particularly care can do whatever.

No real need for it to be mechanically enforced by the game itself.