Shouldn't democratic countries have better economies?

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Malaysia was added so that the UK AI wouldn't have to deal with defending it with troops since they are already spread out as it is. I believe you can easily annex them, but you also fail to recognize that the UK can buy ludicrous amounts of rubber per factory from them and that 80% of their civs go to the UK.

Same goes for Dutch East Indies, they're still pretty useless so long as you send in something better than rabble to conquer them.

I think the point was that the UK no longer earns CIVs from sales of Malayan rubber, which hurts the AI's ability to build up its economy. Human players can work round this using the methods you describe.

Hopefully one day we'll have a Southeast Asia DLC with a Malayan ("Malaysian" is just a misspelling in the 1940s) Focus tree that corrects such issues by modelling the great British-owned plantation firms and perhaps the International Rubber Council, which was as important in 1930s economics as something like NAFTA or TPP today.

 

[Meglok]

It costs time and PP to annex them. PP you did not have to spend before.

They have very few factory slots, so all that CIC they earn from selling to foreign countries can't be used to fill slots at home. Which is what you would do before.

They use their own crappy tech to build factories and RADAR and other stuff. You want a level 3 RADAR in Singapore? Too bad, Malaysia doesn't have the tech for level 3 RADAR, even if you were going to build it for them.

Even at the cheap prices you pay for rubber, you still end up using precious CIC as Britain to get rubber from Malaysia.

The other resources Malaysia produces are also important, and the UK doesn't get to sell them either.

And Malaysia uses her crappy tech to produce resources.

I don't disagree with Paradox's decision, but let's not pretend it didn't hurt the UK.

Singapore is a very sore subject. It should be considered a territory of the UK like Gibraltar instead of part of British Malaya. If there was ever a place the UK considered its own to do with as it would in 1936 that was Singapore.

At the worst and only as a poor compromise, the focus that buffs it should build 2 levels of radar.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Singapore is a very sore subject. It should be considered a territory of the UK like Gibraltar instead of part of British Malaya. If there was ever a place the UK considered its own to do with as it would in 1936 that was Singapore.

At the worst and only as a poor compromise, the focus that buffs it should build 2 levels of radar.

The problem underlying this is that the game 'state' of Singapore covers both historical Singapore, which was a Crown Colony (the Straits Settlements), and the rest of historical Malaya, which was mostly comprised of nominally sovereign states. Again, we have to hope that the hypothetical South East Asia DLC will split them up, just as Tsingdao has been split out of Shandong with WTT.

 

[Jmland]

What with free trade and all. Now they are just plain worse than communism and fascism in game.

The hierarchy goes like this:

Democracy <<<<< Communism << Fascism

Does that seem right to you? ;P

Well...not to belabor the point but Democracy is purely a political system. Communism is both a political system and an economic system, Fascism is some of both.
If one was to replace Democracy with Capitalism, then I would agree...somewhat.

 

[Vampiresoap]

Capitalism is the cornerstone of democracy

 

[Forster]

Singapore should not be part of Malaysia. It was one of Britain's crown colonies, like Hong Kong.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Both Axis and Commitern factions AI need to learn how to deal against british navy because I've never seen the AI trying to defeat the allies in naval war and make naval invasions

Why should the axis and Comitern be able to challenge the RN on the naval front?

They can and they do. I just played a game the other day as Manchukuo where Germany conquered the USSR completely, then started a very successful naval invasion of the UK. I ran into a bug with the Japanese surrender that ruined my game, so I don't recall whether I kept playing long enough for the UK to capitulate, but it was only a matter of time.

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Capitalism is the cornerstone of democracy

Theoretically, the ideal communist state would also be a form of democracy. So far, though, theory has not met reality.

 

[Vampiresoap]

Theoretically, the ideal communist state would also be a form of democracy. So far, though, theory has not met reality.

That's just a blatant communist lie. Their theory is fundamentally flawed. Leftist apologists nowadays are saying,"Oh communism only failed because we have not fully implemented it to its full extend! We have not stayed true to Marx's teaching!" When in fact, their utopian projects failed exactly because they implemented communism to its full extend.

 

[Meglok]

The problem underlying this is that the game 'state' of Singapore covers both historical Singapore, which was a Crown Colony (the Straits Settlements), and the rest of historical Malaya, which was mostly comprised of nominally sovereign states. Again, we have to hope that the hypothetical South East Asia DLC will split them up, just as Tsingdao has been split out of Shandong with WTT.

That is an easy fix with map editor. States were just redrawn for WtT.

Singapore should not be part of Malaysia. It was one of Britain's crown colonies, like Hong Kong.

Amen. How about it @Archangel85 ? Singapore was never part of the Malay States Crown Colony, it was administered as the Straits Settlements Crown Colony. Not having it part of the UK makes defending the colonies a royal pain for the UK, pardon the pun.

 

[War_lord]

It's for the AI, the AI as is isn't capable of defending distant overseas possessions appropriately, handing the colonies to a sub faction fixes that. On the subject of economies, one has to remember that HOI only simulates a wartime economic build up, and dictatorships are naturally better at that, because they rule by decree. In a democracy if you wanted to requisition a bunch of factories to make tanks, you'd have to pass acts allowing you to do that through the democratic system. Dictatorships don't have to bother with any of that.

 

[Vampiresoap]

It's for the AI, the AI as is isn't capable of defending distant overseas possessions appropriately, handing the colonies to a sub faction fixes that. On the subject of economies, one has to remember that HOI only simulates a wartime economic build up, and dictatorships are naturally better at that, because they rule by decree. In a democracy if you wanted to requisition a bunch of factories to make tanks, you'd have to pass acts allowing you to do that through the democratic system. Dictatorships don't have to bother with any of that.

The US did all that better than any dictatorship at the time.

 

[War_lord]

The US did all that better than any dictatorship at the time.

If you go to Wikipedia and look up "World War II aircraft production" these are the numbers you'll see for 1940:

USA
6,068

Germany
10,862

UK
15,049

And then for 1941:

USA
18,466

Germany
12,401

UK
20,094

The US had many times the production capabilities of either Germany or the UK, but doesn't pull ahead on that table till 1942 when they enter the war proper. Free trade, civil liberties and property rights are great in peace time. But there's a reason the Allies suspended them during the war. HOI4 already simulates this with economy and trade laws. Free trade leaches your strategic resources, civilian economy makes it hard to build military factories and wastes most of your civilian capacity on "toasters". The Allies don't have poor IC in 1936 because Paradox thinks they had less production capacity. The Allies have poor IC in 1936 because they aren't on a war footing.

 

[Vampiresoap]

If you go to Wikipedia and look up "World War II aircraft production" these are the numbers you'll see for 1940:

The US had many times the production capabilities of either Germany or the UK, but doesn't pull ahead on that table till 1942 when they enter the war proper. Free trade, civil liberties and property rights are great in peace time. But there's a reason the Allies suspended them during the war. HOI4 already simulates this with economy and trade laws. Free trade leaches your strategic resources, civilian economy makes it hard to build military factories and wastes most of your civilian capacity on "toasters". The Allies don't have poor IC in 1936 because Paradox thinks they had less production capacity. The Allies have poor IC in 1936 because they aren't on a war footing.

Hmm...I see your point, but still, civilian economy is strictly worse than any other economy in game...I don't think that's very well represented. Maybe there should be a more distinct difference between peacetime and wartime economies?

 

[War_lord]

Hmm...I see your point, but still, civilian economy is strictly worse than any other economy in game...I don't think that's very well represented. Maybe there should be a more distinct difference between peacetime and wartime economies?

They're already going that direction with stability and war support, as far as I know Democracies have to pass a certain support threshold. But in a game like this Civilian economy is always going to be something you want out of, because it's a game all about fighting wars. And if you're fighting a total war, the last thing you want of for a huge chunk of your industrial base producing worthless crap.

 

[Vampiresoap]

Shouldn’t civilian economy make the population more happy and therefore make the country more stable?

 

[GothicEmperor]

In what manner doesn't the Free Trade law, with all its ups and downs, depict free trade?

 

[Vampiresoap]

In what manner doesn't the Free Trade law, with all its ups and downs, depict free trade?

Your “exported” resources are wasted even when nobody buys them. So in essence, you give up something but don’t get anything in return. All you get is an abstract modifier that doesn’t help you that much. That’s not free trade, that’s not trade at all.

 

[MelanzanaBill]

That's just a blatant communist lie. Their theory is fundamentally flawed. Leftist apologists nowadays are saying,"Oh communism only failed because we have not fully implemented it to its full extend! We have not stayed true to Marx's teaching!" When in fact, their utopian projects failed exactly because they implemented communism to its full extend.

Which is the utopian project you are talking about ?

Your “exported” resources are wasted even when nobody buys them. So in essence, you give up something but don’t get anything in return. All you get is an abstract modifier that doesn’t help you that much. That’s not free trade, that’s not trade at all.

That's called charity

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Your “exported” resources are wasted even when nobody buys them. So in essence, you give up something but don’t get anything in return. All you get is an abstract modifier that doesn’t help you that much. That’s not free trade, that’s not trade at all.

They're not wasted: we assume that they are used for civilian purposes to earn the foreign exchange that funds your own purchases on the world market. Because Podcast eliminated money from the game, all this is conveniently represented in a single trade law.