Shouldn't democratic countries have better economies?

[Vampiresoap]

What with free trade and all. Now they are just plain worse than communism and fascism in game.

The hierarchy goes like this:

Democracy <<<<< Communism << Fascism

Does that seem right to you? ;P

 

[istariwhite]

Well some buff to dem will be nice, like civ factory build speed buff since they will have hard time getting out of civillian economy. Or even give that buff to civilian economy can be good as well. I'd agree long term economic prowess of democracies are not represented very well

 

[Felius]

Long term yes, but short term such as the time frame the game focus on, not quite. You can massively increase production and economic output short term if you don't mind fucking your economy over in the long term. It's just that the long term is after HOI4 goes to.

 

[Secret Master]

What with free trade and all. Now they are just plain worse than communism and fascism in game.

The hierarchy goes like this:

Democracy <<<<< Communism << Fascism

Does that seem right to you? ;P

Despite my best efforts, I cannot reach historical US production numbers of tanks, planes, and ships. I can do two of three, but not all of them. This would be ahistorical.

But the Devs have also said they want the game playable for the Axis. So, countries like the US are nerfed. Even so, you can still get ridiculous levels of economic growth as a non-fascist or non-communist country if you play it right.

 

[Nimitz12345]

Despite my best efforts, I cannot reach historical US production numbers of tanks, planes, and ships. I can do two of three, but not all of them. This would be ahistorical.

But the Devs have also said they want the game playable for the Axis. So, countries like the US are nerfed. Even so, you can still get ridiculous levels of economic growth as a non-fascist or non-communist country if you play it right.

Axis are too Overpowerd in this patch

 

[Secret Master]

Axis are too Overpowerd in this patch

Germany really seems to have gotten a buff. I'm not sure about Italy and Japan, though. Still taking a look.

But even under the old rules, the economies of the Axis are so powerful and well run that some of the reasons for the war in the first place aren't there. The Reich needs oil? No problem. No need to conquer or puppet anybody or secure Romania. Just build synthetic plants! Japan needs rubber and oil? Again, just run synthetic plants. Italy needs oil? Go find the stuff in Libya.

 

[Vampiresoap]

Germany really seems to have gotten a buff. I'm not sure about Italy and Japan, though. Still taking a look.

But even under the old rules, the economies of the Axis are so powerful and well run that some of the reasons for the war in the first place aren't there. The Reich needs oil? No problem. No need to conquer or puppet anybody or secure Romania. Just build synthetic plants! Japan needs rubber and oil? Again, just run synthetic plants. Italy needs oil? Go find the stuff in Libya.

Strangely, Japan is no longer in the axis. They have their own faction now ;P

 

[Secret Master]

Strangely, Japan is no longer in the axis. They have their own faction now ;P

Well, the AI has been told to take the NF path that gives them their own faction.

They've always been able to do it. And with the Tripartite Pact NF, they can still get the right diplomatic arrangement with Germany, Italy, and the Soviets.

 

[N3UTR0N]

Germany really seems to have gotten a buff. I'm not sure about Italy and Japan, though. Still taking a look.

But even under the old rules, the economies of the Axis are so powerful and well run that some of the reasons for the war in the first place aren't there. The Reich needs oil? No problem. No need to conquer or puppet anybody or secure Romania. Just build synthetic plants! Japan needs rubber and oil? Again, just run synthetic plants. Italy needs oil? Go find the stuff in Libya.

I would say the Axis would need a buff, they got their buff in the wrong place imo.

Both Axis and Commitern factions AI need to learn how to deal against british navy because I've never seen the AI trying to defeat the allies in naval war and make naval invasions, it always leaded to the result where at the end the british come with their naval invasions and then always win, in every time-lapse I watched atleast on youtube by popular youtubers.

 

[stl3l9n]

I would say the Axis would need a buff, they got their buff in the wrong place imo.

Both Axis and Commitern factions AI need to learn how to deal against british navy because I've never seen the AI trying to defeat the allies in naval war and make naval invasions, it always leaded to the result where at the end the british come with their naval invasions and then always win, in every time-lapse I watched atleast on youtube by popular youtubers.

Why should the axis and Comitern be able to challenge the RN on the naval front? The Submarine blockade on the UK was less effective than people think it was, and the RN blockade on Germany caused the axis far more harm than the Subs did to the UK.

 

[Vampiresoap]

Why should the axis and Comitern be able to challenge the RN on the naval front? The Submarine blockade on the UK was less effective than people think it was, and the RN blockade on Germany caused the axis far more harm than the Subs did to the UK.

Historically, yes, but in game, mid WWII Germany has way more factories and naval dockyards than the UK...

 

[stl3l9n]

Historically, yes, but in game, mid WWII Germany has way more factories and naval dockyards than the UK...

Yes, and that's stupid. (well they should have more factories than the UK, but not USSR or US, certainly not more dockyards)

 

[Forster]

The UK has less than 10 dockyards?

 

[Secret Master]

Remember also that with TfV came out, there was an unintentional (perhaps intentional?) nerf to the UK in the form of Malaysia.

The UK no longer owns the majority of the rubber produced by the Empire. That means that, while some people by direct from the UK, massive rubber purchases tend to float to Malaysia, which doesn't help the UK that much (lack of slots, inability to build RADAR, and so on).

 

[Magnificent Genius]

I think that Civilian Economy(as well as the more stringent laws) should give a *boost* to building civ factories instead of a penalty, to make it less of a penalty and to allow for the Democracies to build up civilian factories while at peace and then retool when at war. Probably require some tweaking of the conversion numbers to make it work though. Maybe I should make a thread in the suggestions forum?

 

[OHgamer]

Keep in mind that when the game starts, the Western economies are mired in the Great Depression. Their economies were not working at anything near full capacity, and it was only the imminent sense that war would be coming after 1938 that you start to see Britain and France move to a rearmament that starts to lift their economies up. It was only after the war breaks out in 1939 and orders from overseas began to come in that the US economy started to rise out of the doldrums, and really didn't recover to 1920s levels until after Pearl Harbor.

So the West should start the game rather economically "weak" compared to their potential, as that was the historical reality. What the player does after the game starts to close that gap between what you start with and what you can potentially do, depends on how you play the game yourself. But none of the democracies should have "robust" economies at the start of 1936.

 

[Meglok]

Game balance vs realism. Set it up historical and the Axis loses 99% of the time. By 1943 they are bring knives to a gun fight vs Russia and the Allies. So the Allies are nerfed. Even then, the West is perfectly capable of massive economies. You should see some of the things a cooperating West with a good USA player can do in MP.

The current MEFO set up has really buffed Germany, but it is almost assuredly going to be reduced.

Strangely, Japan is no longer in the axis. They have their own faction now ;P

Japan is in it's own alliance to prevent silly ai tricks like Japan fighting in France, or Germany fighting in China. They have a firm non-aggression and mutual defense treaty, which is historically correct.

 

[Sighfer]

Set it up historical and the Axis loses 99% of the time.

100% of the time. If Czechoslovakia accepts protection from USSR and France finds it intestinal fortitude again during Sudeten crisis, Germany loses. If Poland doesn't block USSR's offer to join Allies a week before they sign Molotov-Ribbentrop, Germany is outnumbered 2-to-1, Germany loses. If the French caught the Germans while they were stuck in the Ardennes for days, Germany loses. If Germany waits until 1942 without invading USSR, they go bankrupt, their economy implodes, and Germany loses. If Germany fails to secure the Caucuses oil fields before they literally run out of fuel needed to keep their army and entire European economy running, Germany loses. Real life isn't balanced. Victory was never in the cards for the Axis, just how big the body count was going to be.

 

[Th3master]

Remember also that with TfV came out, there was an unintentional (perhaps intentional?) nerf to the UK in the form of Malaysia.

The UK no longer owns the majority of the rubber produced by the Empire. That means that, while some people by direct from the UK, massive rubber purchases tend to float to Malaysia, which doesn't help the UK that much (lack of slots, inability to build RADAR, and so on).

Malaysia was added so that the UK AI wouldn't have to deal with defending it with troops since they are already spread out as it is. I believe you can easily annex them, but you also fail to recognize that the UK can buy ludicrous amounts of rubber per factory from them and that 80% of their civs go to the UK.

Same goes for Dutch East Indies, they're still pretty useless so long as you send in something better than rabble to conquer them.

 

[Secret Master]

I believe you can easily annex them, but you also fail to recognize that the UK can buy ludicrous amounts of rubber per factory from them and that 80% of their civs go to the UK.

It costs time and PP to annex them. PP you did not have to spend before.

They have very few factory slots, so all that CIC they earn from selling to foreign countries can't be used to fill slots at home. Which is what you would do before.

They use their own crappy tech to build factories and RADAR and other stuff. You want a level 3 RADAR in Singapore? Too bad, Malaysia doesn't have the tech for level 3 RADAR, even if you were going to build it for them.

Even at the cheap prices you pay for rubber, you still end up using precious CIC as Britain to get rubber from Malaysia.

The other resources Malaysia produces are also important, and the UK doesn't get to sell them either.

And Malaysia uses her crappy tech to produce resources.

I don't disagree with Paradox's decision, but let's not pretend it didn't hurt the UK.