...shouldn't attachments also add STR ?

[unmerged(17541)]

.

- as there are now units with different STR available

- and UNIT-STR is a multiplier for firepower in HOI2

- but attachments still only increases unit stats


this all will results in getting only the half effect from an attachment on a 50 STR unit like a HQ !!!


...so shouldn't an attachment (bigger units, more men, guns...) not also add X STR to an unit ?!

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[GrimReaper]

.

- as there are now units with different STR available

- and UNIT-STR is a multiplier for firepower in HOI2

- but attachments still only increases unit stats


this all will results in getting only the half effect from an attachment on a 50 STR unit like a HQ !!!


...so shouldn't an attachment (bigger units, more men, guns...) not also add X STR to an unit ?!

.

Is this not hidden in the brigade itself?

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Is this not hidden in the brigade itself?

not sure if I understand your question...


...but if you attach e.g. ART (increasing stats: +4 SA)

- to a HQ with 50 STR you will effectly have +2 SA

- to a INF with 100 STR you will effectly have +4 SA

...even if it's exactly the same attachment!


...and AFAIK in HOI2 attachments don't increase STR only stats!


.

 

[Darth Tracid]

Note that different unit STR is only possible in base setup

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Note that different unit STR is only possible in base setup

yes I know - but 1st thing I would do then, is dettach all attachements from units with less then 100 STR !


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[GrimReaper]

not sure if I understand your question...


...but if you attach e.g. ART (increasing stats: +4 SA)

- to a HQ with 50 STR you will effectly have +2 SA

- to a INF with 100 STR you will effectly have +4 SA

...even if it's exactly the same attachment!


...and AFAIK in HOI2 attachments don't increase STR only stats!


.

EDIT: ok, now I get it, don't know why

 

[unmerged(29126)]

This is the way I see it:
The strength now directly factors in when it comes to combat calculations,
so an Inf/Art division at strength=100 is twice as effective in combat as an Inf/Art division at strength Inf/Art
Because Brigades already increase the combat stats (Soft Attack etc.) they SHOULDN't increase strength, as that would give a double bonus ...
higher soft-attack AND 120% effectivity COMBINED: :wacko: this would have an overproportional effect on performance (and some might say that brigades were already overpowered in HOI1)

So the strength is now only a percentage of theoretical maximum combat power but not directly related to a specific number of men.

What Silver_Dragon said there about detaching brigades from units that are understrength is a valid point ... I can smell another exploit

 

[Gwalcmai]

You could have it give less of a bonus. Of course, the end result would be pretty much the same...

Something I've not checked, are the stats of a unit that lost 50% strength through combat also lower?

 

[unmerged(23993)]

I think brigades DO add manpower to a division. Try to disband a division with a brigade in the demo and you get 12 manpower back(without brigade you'd get 10). I think STR is only a percentage of maximum strength.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

The way I see it:

If a brigade adds +4 SA, the result would be as follows:

100 STR = +4 SA
50 STR = +2 SA

But a unit at 50 STR represents the unit having taken 50% casualties (dead, wounded etc), and this would also include the brigade. The brigade is not made up of immortal men

So at 50 STR it is very reasonable that the brigade attached to the unit would also reduced.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

The way I see it:

If a brigade adds +4 SA, the result would be as follows:

100 STR = +4 SA
50 STR = +2 SA

But a unit at 50 STR represents the unit having taken 50% casualties (dead, wounded etc), and this would also include the brigade. The brigade is not made up of immortal men

So at 50 STR it is very reasonable that the brigade attached to the unit would also reduced.

think you missed the point:

e.g. HQ-units are set to 50 STR max!

...this way an attachment on a HQ-unit would only give you half of the effect right away from the beginning!


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[GhengisKhan]

think you missed the point:

e.g. HQ-units are set to 50 STR max!

...this way an attachment on a HQ-unit would only give you half of the effect right away from the beginning!


.

Well HQ units i think are the exception. I don't think they were meant for front line combat. I do see your point but it only seems to affect HQ units and you wont have very many of them from reading the beta posts.

 

[unmerged(11633)]

As a Brigade costs 2 manpower, I guess a 20% increase in strength wouldn't be too bad, but I'm not really too concerned about it.

 

[unmerged(29126)]

As a Brigade costs 2 manpower, I guess a 20% increase in strength wouldn't be too bad, but I'm not really too concerned about it.

But then you would have a 20% bonus due to the strength-increase and another, say 20% due to stat-increase (SA 10+2) ... that would mean a combat-value increase of 1.2 *1.2=1.44. Which is simply too much and adds to the confusion ...

It could work if an Artillery-Brigade only gave +2 or +3 Softattack even when fully teched-up (representing ONLY the equipment used, i.e. Heavy 200mm Artillery) and the 120 strength then is used to increase the fire-power (representing the manpower in an additional brigade/regiment)

We'd have to depart from the SA+8 bonuses that HOI1-style brigades give ...

 

[Dalwin]

Attached brigades should definitely not add strength to the unit.

All units with the exception of HQs, which are a special case, have a max strength of 100. This should be thought of as a percentage.

Brigades raise the stats of the unit but 100% strength is still 100% strength.

Now if you are adding a fresh brigade to a depleted division, I suppose there should be some averaging, in theory. A 50% infantry division (10 MP) getting a fresh brigade (2 MP) should probably end up at roughly 60% strength.

I do not believe we will ever see this, however. This would require keeping track of the strength of brigades when they are detached. I do not think this is currently being done. Otherwise one could manufacture strength out of thin air by repeatedly attaching and detaching a brigade to the same unit.

I find the way it is currently done an acceptable abstraction and simplification. This does mean, however, that it is most efficient to only attach brigades to divisions that are at or near full strength. I suppose one could abuse the current system by detaching brigades from depleted units and attaching them to full strength ones.

 

[unmerged(35776)]

To represent the slightly greater manpower a brigade lends to its parent unit, would it be realistic to mod all brigades to give a... +10% def bonus or something? This is in addition to any def bonus they might give originally, eg. engineers. I might do this once i get the game, but honestly i dont see this as that big of a deal.

Or look at it another way. Since divisions require you pay x manpower to build them, and further manpower to keep the reinforced, and brigades are pretty much static in that respect (with a one time manpower cost), wouldnt the current system make sense? Theyre really just little booster packs that you can move from division to division...

IMO, having brigades have their own manpower would slow the game down a lot, forcing it to keep track of a LOT more stuff and do more calculations. The way it is, abstracted, seems fine to me, with few gross violations of realism that cant be reasoned away by the Abstraction argument...

 

[Usually_Insane]

The brigades are designed to work in the current system right? then why change the system or the brigades?

BTW I think the brigades are much better implemented in HOI2 then in HOI1!