Should The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands get there own provinces?

[pphair]

As long as Bornholm exists though I think the "relevance" argument is a bit dumb, and they are in a strategically interesting position.

From reading this week's dev diary thread, apparently Bornholm was added because of fan demand.

 

[Koramei]

Huh really? That's interesting. Honestly I think adding extra islands to seas is pretty useful gameplay-wise (and so for the Channel Islands too) so I'm not against them having been added, it's just a little funny.

 

[Edmon]

I used to think Channel Islands would be cool to add as a hopping ground between England and France, but now that we're getting the straight, eh. As long as Bornholm exists though I think the "relevance" argument is a bit dumb, and they are in a strategically interesting position.

Paradox have said in the past that Hong Kong wasn't relevant in the time period, and while that's true, this game is about making our own history, and foreign trade was (as a policy) directed through Canton by the Chinese governments, so it makes a lot of sense to add another exclave to that so Canton can be split up more. It's also only like 20 years out of place for the game, not stretching that much really to add it.

That strait is an abomination and should not be implemented >_>.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Guys how did we get from channel islands to debate about constitutions and democracy?

I know a little bit about map making, or at least thats the rumor around here.

Here are some hard facts.

Right now Channel Islands are comprised out of a grand total of 11 pixels split into 2 small blobs.

Lubeck is comprised out of 78 pixels.

In order to make them work, one of those 2 blobs would need to be increased to at least ~30-40 pixels, so effectively made at least several times bigger. And this is just to meet the bare minimum requirement (placing city model and placing unit), and this wouldnt look very aesthetically pleasing (when land units and navies were both present selecting them might be glitchy etc). And it would accomplish what? Create an illusion of a piece of land thats 10x smaller in real life - and before you cry "but Danub Venice!" a.) im not a big fan of Venice (although it does work in some way) and b.) Venice is Venice and frikking Channel Islands is frikking Channel Islands (although requests for this place have been present since EU3, maybe in EU5 well finally get enough resolution and pixels to do this properly *fingers crossed*).

 

[snakebite528]

A look at all the added provinces in the game since Nov 2013

Key: Added provinces Original provinces

The least we deserve is a little orange province in the Irish sea

 

[Edmon]

LOL. Conclusive proof that the game's development has been anything but Eurocentric .

Totally different to everyone's perception of the development.

The place that's seen the least development? The UK and everywhere near it

 

[Xara]

Who could guess that such a tiny little unimportant island would be more entertaining then the Russia or Balkan threads?

 

[grommile]

Case for Jersey:
1) Place for England and France to fight each other where neither has any home ground advantage.

Didn't you suggest they should both be guaranteeing it at game start, such that in AI hands they won't attack it, and it's not a hugely attractive ally, so it won't be getting CtAs from them, either.

5) A place where other nations can negatively impact and get a foot hold against France or England without actually being in France or England.

The only country likely to get a foothold there is Brittany. Nobody else has a credible means of obtaining a CB, and nobody's going to be large enough to diplovassalize it if you give it enough development to actually matter.

 

[pphair]

Who could guess that such a tiny little unimportant island would be more entertaining then the Russia or Balkan threads?

Tiny unimportant islands.

 

[Grand Historian]

Shame, you can't admit you were wrong on constitutionalism even though you so obviously were, additionally mis-read what I said and then hanged yourself with bad google-fu. I'm done here, at least with you.

First and foremost, if anyone has been misreading things, it's been you. I'd be almost impressed at how you managed to misinterpret "let's focus on other parts of the world that are more pressing" as something along the lines of "Jersey is complete irrelevant and should be ignored blah blah blah" if I wasn't so used to it by this point, because our entire debate (and for that matter, your debates with everyone else) has been me advocating patience, or otherwise saying that it would not be a particularly wise use of resources, and you practically going "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!".

Second, I never said that San Monaco's constitution came before Jersey; just that they came up with theirs on their own, and that who came first is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Again, magnificent job putting words into my mouth to give yourself an argument.

Case for Jersey:
1) Place for England and France to fight each other where neither has any home ground advantage.

Unless someone parks an army there and the invader suffers a terrain crossing disadvantage. And since Paradox isn't going to be adding in any Jersey tag anytime soon, it's going to be one-up for England.

2) High historical importance.

In your opinion. Jersey undeniably has stuff going for it, but none of it can be accurately represented with current mechanics (beyond it's Autonomy, which would make it even more worthless than it would already start out as).

3) The government is an extremely rare example of a noble and later democratic republic.

And since there was no Jersey nation and there will be no Jersey tag, all this can be represented as is high autonomy, which again would make it even less valuable, and ultimately it would get reduced to 0.

4) Easy to add events and flavour, due to extensive history throughout the period.

At best, these events would be given to England, and even then, there are plenty of other nations that had far more relevance during EU4's period that are deserving of events than Jersey.

5) A place where other nations can negatively impact and get a foot hold against France or England without actually being in France or England.

Beyond Brittany or a few releasables, I don't think anyone else will be gunning for it. And if Jersey's development would be accurately represented (you know; 1/1/1 grain province with 75%-100% Autonomy), its loss would be literally inconsequential to England or whoever owns it.

But I already know that none of this will make you reconsider your position; so I'm just going to leave you with this to think about: what could an independent Jersey - and I think you've made it abundantly clear that's what you really want - have feasibly accomplished on its own? You know; beyond serving as another stepping stone for an empire.

 

[Edmon]

It is abundantly clear to all involved that you misread my point on constitutionalism then googled "oldest constitution" and made your snark-remark when you found that a country other than Jersey had the oldest surviving constitution. It's super obvious. Now why bother to read or respond to anything you've said when you can't admit that you were wrong?

I am personally wrong on many topics, but guess what, I look up the answers and then I course correct myself. That I might be a better and more knowledgeable person. You can discretely demonstrated an inability to both learn and admit fault.

There is nothing I can do for you. You are like the forum version of Sing Star. There are no other players, you are talking to yourself because you like your own voice.

No matter how good my argument is, no matter even if god came down and wrote it himself, it would be wasted on you because you are having a discussion with yourself.

Edit: Toned down my harshness.

 

[pphair]

It is abundantly clear to all involved

Please don't do that. I hate when people do that.

 

[Edmon]

Please don't do that. I hate when people do that.

Yeah, fair point. Nothing is ever abundantly clear to all involved to be fair. No matter how simple you make it, someone will fail to understand it. The question is, do they want to understand or do they just want to be right?

 

[pphair]

The question is, do they want to understand or do they just want to be right?

Does it even matter?

 

[ststmitch]

I'm not quite sure you'll get enough support in the immediate future. From a game balance standpoint, I don't see how they would not quickly be destroyed, unless they are made to un-visualizable/annexable as a secondary partner in war then even with England and France backing them I would not hold out much hope for the channel islands. The Isle of Man could probably function like the Irish province's so that would be more feasible. But you have made very entertaining arguments in this thread so if it comes down to it I'd support their (all the islands mentioned) inclusion. I think the channel islands might have to be more relegated to events that affect England and France when they are at war. I will point out that all I know of the significance of the channel islands comes from 5 seconds of google search so I apologize if my understanding of the complexities of the area may be lacking but I always encourage the addition of provences that

 

[neondt]

I think this thread has become sufficiently farcical.

The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no case for a Jersey tag in EUIV." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."

 

[volseraph]

Obviously this thread has demonstrated that Jersey is pretty historically irrelevant, but Guernsey gave us cows and milk is an important strategic resource so maybe we should include that?

Seriously, though, I'd love to see Hong Kong in. British possession is only about 30 years outside the game window, and it's kind of disappointing that going for trade ports in China if you're a trading nation that's a little ahead of the historical curve means carving out giant chunks of the country.

 

[Kansai-kun]

As long as Bornholm exists though I think the "relevance" argument is a bit dumb, and they are in a strategically interesting position.

I'll never understand why they put Bornholm into the game as a province, but not Rügen. :/

 

[generalolaf]

I'll never understand why they put Bornholm into the game as a province, but not Rügen. :/

The six-fingered man who killed my father?

 

[Edmon]

I think this thread has become sufficiently farcical.

Perfect achievement:

Forget the three mountains, it's time for the four cows. Conqueror the world as Jersey.