Should strike craft get bonuses from weapon techs?

[Beagá]

Just to be clear, I´m NOT asking for a strike ship design screen or removal of the 3 tiers of SC.

What I´m suggesting is mostly stuff like +10 % damage per missile level, 5/5 for gauss and lasers, stuff like that.

I still think SC are too ignored, maybe that would help out. If people think a strike craft design future is fun, then explain why.

 

[Ryika]

Don't really understand what you're suggesting. Strike Crafts already scale, first through the upgrade tiers, then through the two different types of repeatables.

 

[Beagá]

Aware of those. However the repeatables are expensive and very late game. My point is a change to mid all the way to late game when you will then use repeatables for offensive power.

But the main issue is that it simply isn´t logical. For example HOI 4 has aircraft designer. Because weapons for aircraft improved. You don´t see that in Stellaris. You don´t see craft with better lasers or gauss cannons, or missiles.

I think it needs some attention.

 

[Ryika]

You do see that though, each generation of Strike Crafts uses a different and improved type of laser.

When it comes to weapon type variety, that's not really how Strike Craft work in Stellaris. They fulfill a very specific purpose and are essentially their own "weapon type". A lot of things would need to be changed for the ability to add weapon types onto strike crafts to make sense, and at that point they'd probably just end up as even smaller corvettes.

 

[Beagá]

Also aware that are 3 generations of SC mate. I´m not a newbie

The point is improving each generation by research. My MAJOR issue is missile tech. Because SC ignore shields and armors, IMO, moslty because of missiles. It´s ridiculous to have tier 3 SC with fission missiles.

 

[Ryika]

The point is improving each generation by research.

But you don't do that with the different generations of other weapons either.

My MAJOR issue is missile tech. Because SC ignore shields and armors, IMO, moslty because of missiles. It´s ridiculous to have tier 3 SC with fission missiles.

Don't really understand what you mean by this.

 

[Demoulius]

AFAIK strike craft already get ehat you are asking for. They got their own 3 repetables for attack speed and I dont recall the 2nd one. Their damage is laser based though so they would gain their damage boost from that.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I would like to see strike craft be more fleshed out as a dedicated weapons preference, since the other three weapons types have a 5 tier main sequence, a 3 tier subtype, and a 2 tier subtype, but strike craft only have a delayed 3-tier sequence. Making them scale more incrementally by moving some of their tier upgrades to associated techs is one way to do that without needing to jam more techs into engineering.

 

[Xaelyn]

My MAJOR issue is missile tech. Because SC ignore shields and armors, IMO, moslty because of missiles. It´s ridiculous to have tier 3 SC with fission missiles.

I think the (thematic) reason Strike-craft ignore shields like missiles is that they are self-powered like missiles, so they can counteract the shields attempts to deflect them off course. They are flying through the shields, not firing missile's through them, and certainly not missiles on the scale of the ones being launched by ships.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Strike craft are a weapon tech.

Like with every other weapon tech there are no cross-line synergies.

 

[Dragatus]

I think what OP is suggesting is that weapon techs would have a secondary effect of improving SC damage by a little bit. So when you say research UV Lasers you can now put UV lasers on your ships and you get +5% SC damage.

Personally I don't think that's the right way to go about it. It creates new inconsistencies and simply feels a bit off. The right way to go about it would be to have multiple different SC types, each one based on a type of weapon and the strike craft techs would represent a general level of advancement in SC. And then you'd unlock SC types by combining weapon tech and SC tech. So for example when you research Railguns and Carrier Operation you could unlock "Railgun Strike Craft". Then when you research Advanced Railguns and Improved Strike Craft you could unlock "Advanced Railgun Strikers". And when you research Gauss Cannons and Advanced Strike Craft you could get "Gauss Starfighters".

And wouldn't you know it, there actually already exists a mod that does precisely that!

Steam Workshop::Starfighters! [3.7]

steamcommunity.com

 

[Incompetent]

The main repeatable tech that strike craft need in the late game is something that makes the strike craft reach the target faster, so they have a chance to do damage before the carriers get gunned down by the second, third, fourth etc volley of enemy long-range instahit weapons.

 

[Metallichydra]

I want to know if point defense benefits from weapon techs, because if they do, then I want to know whether or not strike craft gets bonus from shield techs.

 

[Xaelyn]

I want to know if point defense benefits from weapon techs, because if they do, then I want to know whether or not strike craft gets bonus from shield techs.

PD and flak are are tagged as weapon_type_energy and kinetic, respectively, so the repeatables should be applying to them. Whether shield and armour repeatables apply to strike craft/missiles/torpedoes, I'm not so sure.

 

[Beagá]

I think what OP is suggesting is that weapon techs would have a secondary effect of improving SC damage by a little bit. So when you say research UV Lasers you can now put UV lasers on your ships and you get +5% SC damage.

Personally I don't think that's the right way to go about it. It creates new inconsistencies and simply feels a bit off. The right way to go about it would be to have multiple different SC types, each one based on a type of weapon and the strike craft techs would represent a general level of advancement in SC. And then you'd unlock SC types by combining weapon tech and SC tech. So for example when you research Railguns and Carrier Operation you could unlock "Railgun Strike Craft". Then when you research Advanced Railguns and Improved Strike Craft you could unlock "Advanced Railgun Strikers". And when you research Gauss Cannons and Advanced Strike Craft you could get "Gauss Starfighters".

And wouldn't you know it, there actually already exists a mod that does precisely that!

Steam Workshop::Starfighters! [3.7]

steamcommunity.com

Eh... no I don´t like that path. Fighters and bombers were melded together for a reason.

I still prefer damage modifier per tech of the main damage dealers lasers/mass drivers/missiles.

As for SC and missiles ignoring shields, that is pure balance decision not having much logic (which sci fi has missiles ignoring shields or similars? Battlefleet Gothic is one of the fex exceptions) and with TORPEDOES not missiles), and even then missiles are still trash tech. Making them relate with SC damage helps them being less crap.

 

[HFY]

Eh... no I don´t like that path. Fighters and bombers were melded together for a reason.

Doesn't mean the reason was good.

I like the idea of Strike Craft getting more fleshed out, but that's in the context of weapon groups being more exclusive of each other -- so most empires would stick with basic Strike Craft, but an empire which went all-in might use Bombers & PD Drones in addition.

 

[Verx90]

One of the way to make SC to be relevant is to slow down the battles.

Either by decreasing dmg / increasing various HP, or by a rework of fleets management /sublight speed systems.

If 2 fleets / bastions start fighting as soon as they are in the same system, you could have different way of doing the battle. But considering the graphic engine they used for stellaris, this is not a possible option.

So.. Or strike craft get a sublight speed of lightspeed/time travel, or battles need to slow down.

 

[Metallichydra]

One of the way to make SC to be relevant is to slow down the battles.

Either by decreasing dmg / increasing various HP, or by a rework of fleets management /sublight speed systems.

If 2 fleets / bastions start fighting as soon as they are in the same system, you could have different way of doing the battle. But considering the graphic engine they used for stellaris, this is not a possible option.

So.. Or strike craft get a sublight speed of lightspeed/time travel, or battles need to slow down.

I really want battles to slow down.
So, like, the enemy sends their fleet to attack my starbase.
I would very much like to have the time to send reinforcements if I don't think the starbase can handle it by itself.
It would also mean that using a deathstack would be more risky, as you could end up having a large part of your fleet locked in battle for more than 30 days.

 

[DamnedLackOfTropicalFruit]

Strike craft were nerfed in 3.6, but it was for good reason. They're still very strong, but they're a bit more situational - they're in a good place. I don't think they need to be incrementally buffed by every other weapon tech.

I want to know if point defense benefits from weapon techs, because if they do, then I want to know whether or not strike craft gets bonus from shield techs.

PD benefits from weapon techs, but I'm pretty confident strike craft and missiles do not benefit from shield/armor techs. The modifier from shield repeatables is called ship_shield_mult, so if it does work on strike craft, that would mean the Shield Capacitors aux component also works on strike craft.

Not that it would matter if shield repeatables did work on strike craft - PD repeatables still massively outscale shield repeatables, since they increase both firerate and damage, whereas shield repeatables only improves damage. Strike craft and missiles both stop being good once you're deep into repeatables.

Also, it might not even work properly anyway, only the first strike craft deployed benefits from firerate and ship damage modifiers, so any shield multipliers might also be bugged.

 

[-Marauder-]

Which is actually in a way interesting. Because it would mean that PD would at some point become good enough to hard counter strike craft, and missiles. Missile attack speed goes up, so it would take longer as they don't need to replenish the way strike craft do. But eventually they'd be destroyed so quickly it wouldn't matter as their HP are static.