Should Slovakians be their own culture in the game?

[Enewald]

Why not.

But maybe also add Mordvins too? They still exist, as they did during 15th century, even if they were not that important as they were either under Mongol or Muscovite rule.

And Greeks in Southern Italy maybe?

Dalmatians, Latin speaking population were also somewhat important during the game era. Ragusa begun as a Dalmatian speaking city state, and became a Slavic speaking Dubrovnik only very late. Plus with Venice owning much of Adriatic coastline, putting Dalmatians there would just ensure historical reality, with Venice more likely to focus on those areas if they share cultural ties, like they did historically.

If Paradox is willing to add a very small Gothic culture, surely bigger and more populous cultures should also be added?

 

[olm]

Instead of naming groups like "West-Slavic" and "South-Slavic" paradox should had just used "Central-European" and "Balkan". That way all issues about Hungarians, Romanians and Albanians looking silly in same groups with Slavs could have been avoided.

If PDX is willing to include the 1 BT, no TAG Karelians or almost-as-ignored Latvians to this game, then I see no reason why the Slovaks and Slovenians can't be included.

Karelians are actually suffering from obvious and totally outrageous pro-Russian bias by Paradox, they totally should have at least 1 more province (Olonets)

 

[Straigthtsilver]

Why not.

But maybe also add Mordvins too? They still exist, as they did during 15th century, even if they were not that important as they were either under Mongol or Muscovite rule.

The 'Uralic' provinces in Muscovy's east and in Perm are more or less meant to represent the Mordvins I believe.

And Greeks in Southern Italy maybe?

I'm by no means an expert on this, but were the Grikos still distinct ethnically from the surrounding people? I assumed they were essentially assimilated by this point in everything but keeping their dialect of Greek as a secondary language.

Dalmatians, Latin speaking population were also somewhat important during the game era. Ragusa begun as a Dalmatian speaking city state, and became a Slavic speaking Dubrovnik only very late. Plus with Venice owning much of Adriatic coastline, putting Dalmatians there would just ensure historical reality, with Venice more likely to focus on those areas if they share cultural ties, like they did historically.

If Paradox is willing to add a very small Gothic culture, surely bigger and more populous cultures should also be added?

This I'd support wholeheartedly. The Dalmatian Romance-speakers were quite distinct from their Slavic neighbours, and they survived well into the game's timeline. Dalmatia, Istria, and Ragusa at the very least should be Dalmatian at the 1444 start.

 

[yerm]

A cultural redraw of the area would be great. Central Europe cultural identity and nationality seems to be a pretty big deal in most online games I run into, so at least a good honest effort might make a ton of the natives happy. There are certainly other places that would be more realistic or historically accurate if they were looked at first (English and Lombard come to mind) but in at least the former case, most likely both, I don't see how it actually adds anything to the game. Redrawing central and southeast Europe, however, could help a lot of the current holes in a stale part of most games that SHOULD be a real center and focus of the game!

The Dalmatia change seems like the most obvious and productive one. The current cultures there seem like a mix of late medieval Europe with 1848; Dalmatian even gets a nod in Ragusa's ideas but not on the map.

Adding Slovak/Slovene might be good, but it needs to accompany other changes. Hungary is already suffering a painful handicap and can't handle being further carved up. It's starting general means nothing when it always allies the Teutons and gets smacked into the dirt by lucky Poland & Brandenburg, who bring either Lithuania or Austria depending on who declares war. If we're going to make it essentially another Lithuania with giant rebellion problems and disunity, either railroad it into union with Austria even easier (just like Poland easily gets Lith) and have it function that way, or boost both its taxes in its Hungarian regions and its relationship with Serbia and Wallachia, so it plays a bigger role in the south and not as a food bank for Poland, Bohemia and Serbia. This is fundamentally my problem with the otherwise worthwhile addition of Slo cultures here - Hungary cannot be made to suffer even more for it.

The cultures in the Baltics are fine and good. Hell, maybe add more regions to them. Both holy orders are essentially just a stepping stone for one of the lucky nations anyway, and the non-Prussian regions are so low tax they're hardly significant. At least the various cultures here make it difficult to accept them, and therefore less of a free candy situation for the Poland, Russia, or maybe Prussia clobbering this area.

 

[Christopholes]

^This. Also add tags for estonian, latvian, sami, karelian etc.

 

[olm]

The cultures in the Baltics are fine and good. Hell, maybe add more regions to them. Both holy orders are essentially just a stepping stone for one of the lucky nations anyway, and the non-Prussian regions are so low tax they're hardly significant. At least the various cultures here make it difficult to accept them, and therefore less of a free candy situation for the Poland, Russia, or maybe Prussia clobbering this area.

Not really, Old-Prussians in Kurland and Semigallia make absolutely no sense historically as they never lived there.

 

[yerm]

Not really, Old-Prussians in Kurland and Semigallia make absolutely no sense historically as they never lived there.

Not sure where you're getting this. They certainly did live up in that whole area west of Riga. How you draw Prussian vs Old-Prussian (basically, what have the orders "assimilated" or not by 1444) is a valid debate, and you might better serve the area by giving it a new name, but it really is just a matter of what name you want to give that area.

 

[Enewald]

Because there were Livonians living in Kurland, as well as Curonians and Latvians. Pruthenians were living south of Semgalians in Prussia proper. Livonians belonging to Finno-Ugric culture, and Curonians and Latvians to Baltics.

 

[olm]

Not sure where you're getting this. They certainly did live up in that whole area west of Riga. How you draw Prussian vs Old-Prussian (basically, what have the orders "assimilated" or not by 1444) is a valid debate, and you might better serve the area by giving it a new name, but it really is just a matter of what name you want to give that area.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg
Old Prussians lived in region generally known as East-Prussia. In Kurland and Semigallia originally (before Livonian Crusade in 13th century) lived Curonians, Semigallians and Livonians. Later they were gradually assimilated into Latvians. That if 1444 should have Latvians there or Curonians and Semigallians could be argued about, but either way Old-Prussians don't belong there.

 

[yerm]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg
Old Prussians lived in region generally known as East-Prussia. In Kurland and Semigallia originally (before Livonian Crusade in 13th century) lived Curonians, Semigallians and Livonians. Later they were gradually assimilated into Latvians. That if 1444 should have Latvians there or Curonians and Semigallians could be argued about, but either way Old-Prussians don't belong there.

The game basically clumps all those except Lithuanian in together as Prussian. Prussian is the "assimilated" area and Old-Prussian is the Curonian and Semigallian areas that really hadn't tossed aside their past yet despite the influence of the Knights. From a technical standpoint, no, I am wrong and Old Prussians were basically just the majority of Teutonic Order territory only. From a game standpoint, where Prussia seems to be a union of all these groups (similar to how English or Castillian culture currently function), Old-Prussian is a fine and good representation currently of the parts that aren't really Prussian like Riga and the Teutonic Order area, but would greatly benefit from more definition in that region. Of course, the actual territory there could also use a good redraw, particularly with how the region in and around Memel currently works with Teuton, Livonian and Lithuanian borders.

 

[olm]

The game basically clumps all those except Lithuanian in together as Prussian. Prussian is the "assimilated" area and Old-Prussian is the Curonian and Semigallian areas that really hadn't tossed aside their past yet despite the influence of the Knights. From a technical standpoint, no, I am wrong and Old Prussians were basically just the majority of Teutonic Order territory only. From a game standpoint, where Prussia seems to be a union of all these groups (similar to how English or Castillian culture currently function), Old-Prussian is a fine and good representation currently of the parts that aren't really Prussian like Riga and the Teutonic Order area, but would greatly benefit from more definition in that region. Of course, the actual territory there could also use a good redraw, particularly with how the region in and around Memel currently works with Teuton, Livonian and Lithuanian borders.

Imo most historically accurate would be simply putting Latvians into those provinces. At 1444 Curonians and Semigallians were in process of merging into Latvians anyway.

 

[anomanderus]

I'm pretty sure the Gothic culture exists just for fun and because it doesn't harm gameplay. Byzantium is the cultural union of the Greeks and Goths.