I kinda think they should, they would have multiple provinces, west slavic group, they aren't as small as the slovenes but the strongest argument against it in my mind is the fact Hungary is kind of weak sauce right now.
Should Slovakians be their own culture in the game?
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Why should they be their own culture ingame?
Also, Hungary's problem can be fixed by moving them out of their dumb special snowflake culture group and back to one of the Slavic groups. Improved gameplay.
Also, Hungary's problem can be fixed by moving them out of their dumb special snowflake culture group and back to one of the Slavic groups. Improved gameplay.
Why should Latvian be its own culture? Cause it was there. Slovakians aren't magic
I don't really agree with Latvians being ingame either, but I was more asking for your reasoning. Your opening post was basically "I think Slovakians should be in the game. Here's how to implement it, and here's the argument against it." You didn't present any reasoning for why you think they should be a culture in the game, and that's what I'm interested in.
What drives people to be so petty about their culture being represented in the game? Why not just accept the generalizations PDX made and instead hope they focus in bug-fixing and enhancing game mechanics?
Dude I'm as WASP as they come. I just play in the Poland area a lot. I think it strange they are in Victoria 2 but not EU4, Slovakians have multiple provinces and some of them pretty high in base tax, it just makes sense to me. Seriously, every time someone mentions eastern europe you don't need to bitch and moan screaming nationalism, it's... pathetic.
I do think we need more cultures in general, simply so we won't get large blobs with most of the cultures under them accepted.
In my opinion:
1) Hungary should become West Slavic, maybe become an independent group by an event at late-game.
2) Add Slovakian as West Slavic and accepted culture of Hungary (could be lost by event at the end of the game)
3) Add Székely as a sub-Hungarian culture, naturally accepted in both Hungary and Transylvania (in 1 or 2 provinces).
1) Hungary should become West Slavic, maybe become an independent group by an event at late-game.
2) Add Slovakian as West Slavic and accepted culture of Hungary (could be lost by event at the end of the game)
3) Add Székely as a sub-Hungarian culture, naturally accepted in both Hungary and Transylvania (in 1 or 2 provinces).
I guess a problem would be that they were always occupied by one nation or another, the majority of the game was by Hungary and Austro-Hungary. They were dependent on these nations, and the vicinity of the Hungary capital (which bounced around in that area and periodically northern Hungary) helped improve their situation. As noted when they moved it further away, they became impoverished and a lot migrated to English Colonies and USA.
Either give them their own culture, or put them in with the Czechs (not exactly the same culture, but close relatives); certainly, they should be in the West Slavic group. What doesn't make sense is to have Hungarian culture all over Slovakia.
I'd probably give Hungary a cultural acceptance bonus in its NIs, because the real kingdom of Hungary (especially if it includes Croatia) was fairly cosmopolitan by the standards of the era. (There was a policy of Magyarisation in the 19th century, but this was more of a reaction to Germanisation in the Habsburg empire.)
Slovenia should probably have its own culture, but it's not a serious issue as long as they are represented as South Slavic. What's less clear is how to divide up the Serbs/Croats/Bosniaks/Montenegrins, especially before the arrival of Islam (in Bosnia especially, it seems the ethnic divisions are largely on the basis of religion). Languages are not a good basis for division, as they all speak dialects of the same language, and the traditional dialect regions don't line up with national identities. It's probably good they're divided up somehow though so that it's not too easy to get 'Yugoslav' accepted culture as an outside power.
I'd probably give Hungary a cultural acceptance bonus in its NIs, because the real kingdom of Hungary (especially if it includes Croatia) was fairly cosmopolitan by the standards of the era. (There was a policy of Magyarisation in the 19th century, but this was more of a reaction to Germanisation in the Habsburg empire.)
Slovenia should probably have its own culture, but it's not a serious issue as long as they are represented as South Slavic. What's less clear is how to divide up the Serbs/Croats/Bosniaks/Montenegrins, especially before the arrival of Islam (in Bosnia especially, it seems the ethnic divisions are largely on the basis of religion). Languages are not a good basis for division, as they all speak dialects of the same language, and the traditional dialect regions don't line up with national identities. It's probably good they're divided up somehow though so that it's not too easy to get 'Yugoslav' accepted culture as an outside power.
Actually, Slovakian culture is very-very similar to the Hungarian, except the language. But clothing, folklore, music, food traditions are almost the same.
Which provinces would you make Slovakian? I don't think the game really benefits from another tiny culture without even a primary nation.
Poszony and that other next to it. I think they're both BT 8, Hungary's strongest and, due to their position near BOH/POL/HAB, most vulnerable provinces.
Of course Krain and Gorz should be Slovene - South Slavic, Niederlausitz+Oberlausitz should be Sorb (not Serb) - West Slavic. And Tuscany should be Toscano, Venice and Istria should be Venetian, Parma/Ferrara/Modena/Romagna should be Emilian, Liguria/Nice should be Ligurian, Savoie/Wallis/Vaud/Franche-Comte/Lyonnais/Charolais/Dauphine should be Arpitan, Pirineo/Aragon/primary culture of Aragon should be Castillian, the Rheinlander culture is ridiculously large and includes Switzerland as the primary for some reason, Luxemburg should be german, Kleves should be dutch, Friesland should be Frisian, Western Isles/Highlands should be celtic, etc. It goes on and on. Just sayin.
Of course Krain and Gorz should be Slovene - South Slavic, Niederlausitz+Oberlausitz should be Sorb (not Serb) - West Slavic. And Tuscany should be Toscano, Venice and Istria should be Venetian, Parma/Ferrara/Modena/Romagna should be Emilian, Liguria/Nice should be Ligurian, Savoie/Wallis/Vaud/Franche-Comte/Lyonnais/Charolais/Dauphine should be Arpitan, Pirineo/Aragon/primary culture of Aragon should be Castillian, the Rheinlander culture is ridiculously large and includes Switzerland as the primary for some reason, Luxemburg should be german, Kleves should be dutch, Friesland should be Frisian, Western Isles/Highlands should be celtic, etc. It goes on and on. Just sayin.
It certanly would make sense to add slovakian culture to the provine of Pozsony and Szepes and probably make a tag for Nyitra as its primary nation.
Is Albanian still south slavic? Because Albanian is an unique ethnic group/
I agree, because:
"The first mentions of a common Slovene ethnic identity, transcending regional boundaries, date from the 16th century when the Protestant Reformation spread throughout the Slovene Lands. During this period, the first books in Slovene were written by the Protestant preacher Primož Trubar and his followers, establishing the base for the development of standard Slovene. In the second half of the 16th century, numerous books were printed in Slovene, including an integral translation of the Bible by Jurij Dalmatin."
That is some-much similar to the Finns and they're in the game...
If PDX is willing to include the 1 BT, no TAG Karelians or almost-as-ignored Latvians to this game, then I see no reason why the Slovaks and Slovenians can't be included.
The biggest issue with the Slovaks I can imagine, and it's been mentioned before, is that it would weaken Hungary by giving them more minorities. This can easily be solved however by shifting the Hungarian BT away from the ahistorically rich Poszony/Bratislava and Szepes and spread that out further into the Hungarian lands to the south. The Slovaks themselves can be automatically kept as an accepted culture ala the Croats, or Hungary can be given an Accepted Culture bonus in their NIs.
The same applies to the Austrians with the Slovenes. The Slovenes were always quite loyal and fondly-regarded by the Austrians (especially in comparison to the other Slavs in the empire), so they should be automatically Accepted.
The biggest issue with the Slovaks I can imagine, and it's been mentioned before, is that it would weaken Hungary by giving them more minorities. This can easily be solved however by shifting the Hungarian BT away from the ahistorically rich Poszony/Bratislava and Szepes and spread that out further into the Hungarian lands to the south. The Slovaks themselves can be automatically kept as an accepted culture ala the Croats, or Hungary can be given an Accepted Culture bonus in their NIs.
The same applies to the Austrians with the Slovenes. The Slovenes were always quite loyal and fondly-regarded by the Austrians (especially in comparison to the other Slavs in the empire), so they should be automatically Accepted.
