Should Slavic be split in two?

[Arch-Heretek]

I'm aware that the Slavic community in Europe is quite large and widespread, but it recently dawned on me how hard (and somewhat ridiculous) it is for Balkan Slavs or far eastern Slavs to reform or assist the religion. The Holy sites are scattered around Europe, but still requires an enterprising fringe kingdom to cut a swathe into the Poland to Russia corridor. At the point of reformation, especially as one of the far away kingdoms like Serbia or Croatia, most will have needed to take over almost half the map and all of the religion, turning what seems to me like a mid-game mechanic into an end-game one.

Such occurred to me while trying to forge "Tueta's Bloodline" which requires being in the Dalmatia area, pagan or tribal, female, and to defeat the Byzantines. Tribalism had outlived its usefulness and so I needed to either reform or convert. The problem with reforming in such a situation is that I would need to basically be the size of 2-3 empires, well beyond this little regional flavor.

Maybe Slavic should be split into North and South? Or East and West? Or maybe just have more holy sites to make fringe players more fun or viable.

 

[majdavlk]

I think that holding holy sites should not be required for reformation, and that multiple reformations of the same religion should be available .

Edit : anyone knows how to fix the horrible Autocorreckt on xiaomi phones?

 

[Azhcristokos]

The problem regarding Slavic is that its holy sites were placed with the 867 start in mind when pagan reformation was added in with The Old Gods. The Charlemagne start, in which the Balkans are still almost entirely Slavic and Tengri, came later and the devs either either overlooked the difficulties the Balkan Slavs would then face or assumed that most players in that area would convert anyways.

 

[Turbofjes]

I'm confused. Tribalism outlives its usefulness when there isn't any more tribal land to conquer anyway, in my experience. And even then thousands of retinue and free vassal armies are pretty useful.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

I'm confused. Tribalism outlives its usefulness when there isn't any more tribal land to conquer anyway, in my experience. And even then thousands of retinue and free vassal armies are pretty useful.

It outlives its usefullness when you need real soldiers rather than light infantry hordes. Or are so bad at vassal management the kingdom is consistently north korea. Plus succession laws, that's a driver for some.

 

[Castios]

Reforming slavic religion is indeed really difficult compared to like nords. I reformed norse religion within 2 generations while slavic holy sites are so goddamn spread out.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

Reforming slavic religion is indeed really difficult compared to like nords. I reformed norse religion within 2 generations while slavic holy sites are so goddamn spread out.

Indeed, Slavic and Tengri are the most spread out and probably hardest to reform, though Tengri is compensated for by the fact it is used by horde doomstacks that can take over the map real quick and easy.

Compare with Romuva and Germanic which are basically only 10 counties apart from any other holy site.

 

[IndigoRage]

Indeed, Slavic and Tengri are the most spread out and probably hardest to reform, though Tengri is compensated for by the fact it is used by horde doomstacks that can take over the map real quick and easy.

Compare with Romuva and Germanic which are basically only 10 counties apart from any other holy site.

Suomenusuko is another one that's pretty difficult. Most of them are centralized around Finland, northeast Russia and Estonia so it's pretty okay, but a couple are really far out of the way in like Perm and Volga Bulgaria and you'll have to contend with powerful hordes to secure them.

3 of the sites are pretty close though so if you just pillage and county conquest and build pillars enough it should be pretty easy to reform without blobbing too much.

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I'm still of the opinion that you should have to hold at least a few holy sites to reform, but not 3 minimum.

I still hold the opinion that high moral authority should allow you to ignore the fact that you don't hold the plot of land which has no temple in the middle of the mongol horde.

If you have extremely low moral authority, sure, you'd need 3 (or more) holy sites to legitimize the claim.

Right now I'm playing Romuva, I had all the holy sites conquered by use of the subjugation CB in two generations (and quite a few rulers dying in battles, or being pushed off balconies). I basically own all the required holy sites. I can't reform because one site is held by a random vassal slavic priest, bringing my MA to 46% (though I see there's a huge issue with failed conquests from the vassals, and a seemingly active cult). I'd eat the tyranny, but I'd run the risk of a pretty prompt game over with everyone hating my character, and successors.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

I think that holding holy sites should not be required for reformation, and that multiple reformations of the same religion should be available .

Edit : anyone knows how to fix the horrible Autocorreckt on xiaomi phones?

I have Oneplus phone and the same problem here. I have only noticed it happen in paradox forums. Very annoying to write posts because of it.

 

[ramius3443]

Indeed, Slavic and Tengri are the most spread out and probably hardest to reform, though Tengri is compensated for by the fact it is used by horde doomstacks that can take over the map real quick and easy.

Compare with Romuva and Germanic which are basically only 10 counties apart from any other holy site.

Tengri isn't really difficult to reform if you are staring from the eastern part of the map: three of the holy sites are either in the eastern steppes or right next to it, so its fairly easy to unify them in a single decent lifetime. The only tricky part is getting enough money to build the holdings if you are short on MA.


I agree with the OP about Slavic though: as it stands, Slavic is ridiculously hard to reform compared to all the others (yes a few in Russia, one in Poland, one randomly in the Steppes, and then one in Romania? Why?), and is pointless for the Balkans in its current iteration. At least splitting up Slavic into South/East groupings makes it viable for the South and easier for the north (since you can move the holy site into Russia/Poland/Ukraine, instead of Romania).

 

[IndigoRage]

I agree with the OP about Slavic though: as it stands, Slavic is ridiculously hard to reform compared to all the others (yes a few in Russia, one in Poland, one randomly in the Steppes, and then one in Romania? Why?), and is pointless for the Balkans in its current iteration.

What slavic holy site are you saying is randomly in the Steppe? It's Plock, the island in Obotritia, Kiev, Novgorod, and Barlad. There is no slavic holy site in the steppe. Suomenusuko is the one where one or two of the holy sites can end up controlled by nomads.

 

[ramius3443]

What slavic holy site are you saying is randomly in the Steppe? It's Plock, the island in Obotritia, Kiev, Novgorod, and Barlad. There is no slavic holy site in the steppe. Suomenusuko is the one where one or two of the holy sites can end up controlled by nomads.

The Ryazan one is often held by nomads.

 

[Nyrael]

Devs during TOG: "Pagan Reformarion is supposed to be a very high difficulty challenge!"
People here: "It's not too hard, but about making it even easier, eh?"

 

[IndigoRage]

Devs during TOG: "Pagan Reformarion is supposed to be a very high difficulty challenge!"
People here: "It's not too hard, but about making it even easier, eh?"

I agree. It's supposed to be difficult, and it was something that in real life was only attempted but never accomplished. It by all rights should be difficult. The only thing I would think might need changing based on this post are the requirements for that bloodline.

 

[IntoTheMaelstrom]

Suomenusko was nerfed, due to province count in perm. I'm never going into that direction again

Yep, holy sites for slavic are truly polish/russian centered and made with 867 in mind.

HOWEVER Croatia/Serbia has the best looting potential out of all pagan countries in the game! Venice and Rome so close

 

[afrodius]

With a good chancellor and a little luck you can easily fabricate 3 claims in a lifetime or two. Unless you have exclaves turned on you don't have to conquer everything in between

 

[IndigoRage]

With a good chancellor and a little luck you can easily fabricate 3 claims in a lifetime or two. Unless you have exclaves turned on you don't have to conquer everything in between

Even if you do have exclaves turned on, you can just reform before you lose them and then most other slavs will convert to reformed slavic anyway, retaining your moral authority.

 

[Dragatus]

Devs during TOG: "Pagan Reformarion is supposed to be a very high difficulty challenge!"
People here: "It's not too hard, but about making it even easier, eh?"

The thing is that reforming most pagan religions is quite easy. Norse, Romuva, and African can all be reformed in the lifetime of your starting character or first successor. Slavic stands out in compare, especially if you don't intend to expand much.

 

[IndigoRage]

The thing is that reforming most pagan religions is quite easy. Norse, Romuva, and African can all be reformed in the lifetime of your starting character or first successor. Slavic stands out in compare, especially if you don't intend to expand much.

Start in southeastern poland, Galicia-Volhynia, or Kiev, and you could very easily be able to reform Slavic within your lifetime since it has a fairly high moral authority to begin with and you're centrally located between 3 holy sites.