should serfs be allowed to emmigrate?

[unmerged(19173)]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
Drafting soldiers from serfs wasn't that simple if they weren't Czar's serfs. The nobles demanded something back for loosing their property, thus less soldiers were drafted from their serfs and their life in general was a bit more limited. I guess you didn't make a difference between pre- and post-emancipation drafting?

You can get a generous amount of land, but if it happens to reside in Siberia the reward isn't that grand in the end.

The aristocracy had its duties and one was to provide “recruits”. The Siberian land as land is as good as the Wild West. Hundred thousand of Germans migrated there, because the Tsars ware of German descent.

I don’t know why the theory of Siberia being a wasteland is so popular in the West. I think it is a cheap old propaganda. It is as good as North US or South Canada.

 

[unmerged(19173)]

Originally posted by Darkrenown
I don't know about farm land, but the Tsars* micromanaged intensivly. Up untill 19-something they would sign every serf's marriage certificate personally, and that was just one of his uh, impotant duties.

*= I see Tsar spelt Tsar, Tzar, Csar and Czar on this forum and in history books, anyone know for sure which is correct?

There is no such letter XXX in the Latin/English alphabet and Tsar, Tzar, Csar and Czar sounds more or less like the real

PS The forum doesn't accept cirilic

 

[Conrad]

Originally posted by todorp
The aristocracy had its duties and one was to provide “recruits”. The Siberian land as land is as good as the Wild West. Hundred thousand of Germans migrated there, because the Tsars ware of German descent.

I don’t know why the theory of Siberia being a wasteland is so popular in the West. I think it is a cheap old propaganda. It is as good as North US or South Canada.

I agree.

I guess people are too influenced by the pictures of Gulags and the fact that certain parts of Siberia can be immensely cold.

Siberia, including the Russian far east, is quite comparable to Canada and the north wild west, with lots of good land (lots of this good land was given to Kazakhstan by Stalin, though. As the Kazakhs are scared that the Russian population there would like the territory to be ceded to Russia, the Kazakhs have moved their capital to this fertile area).

 

[Grosshaus]

Originally posted by todorp
The aristocracy had its duties and one was to provide “recruits”. The Siberian land as land is as good as the Wild West. Hundred thousand of Germans migrated there, because the Tsars ware of German descent.

Would you regard what was seen as the typical Wild West (Arizona, New Mexico etc.) as places with prime agricultural land? Too dry for that, just like Kazakstan. Siberia on the other hand, even the Southern parts near Trans-Siberian, is too cold to be profitable. It's similar in climate than areas in Northen Canada, not like Alberta etc. where grain production is extremely profitable. In whole Russian Empire only Ukraine was climatically and in soil structure as good to farm as American Midwest, elsewhere herding was the prime source of agricultural income.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
. In whole Russian Empire only Ukraine was climatically and in soil structure as good to farm as American Midwest, elsewhere herding was the prime source of agricultural income.

Quite. To claim that even southern siberia (i.e. the steppes) is prime farm land would be ridiculous. The fact that this land is much better suited to herding (and hence especially to nomadic lifestyle) is the sole reason that agricultural societies didn't take over the land until the 18th - 19th century.

The huge inner eurasian steppe belt ranging from Hungary to Manchuria has been a home to countless nomadic conquerors (Scythians, Huns, Turks, Mongols, Manchus, etc)

IMHO a good book on the (OT) subject is

A History of Russia, Central Asia and Mongolia, VOLUME I, Inner Eurasia from Prehistory to the Mongol Empire

by David Christian

 

[Conrad]

So all of the Russian empire east of the Urals was either semi-arid steppe or frozen tundra?

This crude generalization is as relevant to Siberia as it would be to Canada. Both Canada and Siberia attracted hundreds of thousands of settlers who actually managed to live off the land.

In the Russian far east we have quite mild and verdant areas, that we could and should compare to similar parts of Canada.

Concerning the suitability of the steppes to grazing rather than farming similar ideas have been applied to the prairie in North America.

 

[cthulhu]

A History of Russia, Central Asia and Mongolia, VOLUME I, Inner Eurasia from Prehistory to the Mongol Empire

ISBN?

 

[unmerged(1949)]

I tend to agree that before the freeing of the Serfs, there was little immigration from that group. However, the orgainzed campaigns against the Jews, sponsored by the Czarist government, brought about a flow of immigrants leaving the Russian state.
If you look at US immigration patterns, eastern Europe isn't a very sizeable portion, until you get to the 1880s and beyond. The flow was small to begin with and sizeable in the first quarter of the 20th century.
So the Czar can keep his people in bondage, but the result would be a nation quicker to rebel. Six of one, half a dozen of the other is the old saying on this point. Regards.

 

[Darkrenown]

Originally posted by todorp
There is no such letter XXX in the Latin/English alphabet and Tsar, Tzar, Csar and Czar sounds more or less like the real

Ah. Thanks, the multi-spellings of Tsar have bugged me for a while now.