Should Mormon be a nation designer religion?

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Grand Historian

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In any case, the difference between calling Mormons Christians, Muslims Christians, or Christians Jews, is that the Mormons call themselves Christians and identify as such, while few Christians call themselves Jews (religiously at least) and few to no Muslims call themselves Christians. Mormons are Christian because they say they are, believe what they say, and Christ is at the core of this religion which they say and believe to be a Christian one. Jews and Muslims claim to be from the same religious group (Abrahamic) absolutely true, but not Christians, the way Mormons do.

Meanwhile, I will wait patiently for my Thetan-themed Sunset Invasion DLC for EU4.

Mormons call themselves Christians, but the majority of Christians merely view them as a cult or Gnostics, because, despite their claims, they aren't really Christian. Christ isn't at the center of their doctrine; by demoting him to the status of another creation they completely go against the very core of Christianity. Likewise, by saying that man can be elevated to the status of Godhood, they completely disregard the very purpose of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. So yes; they can call themselves Christians, but they aren't. To put it in perspective, most Swedes associate themselves with the Church of Sweden (or did in recent memory), but it's clear that the majority of them aren't Christians.
 
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MiniaAr

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Mormons call themselves Christians, but the majority of Christians merely view them as a cult or Gnostics, because, despite their claims, they aren't really Christian. Christ isn't at the center of their doctrine; by demoting him to the status of another creation they completely go against the very core of Christianity. Likewise, by saying that man can be elevated to the status of Godhood, they completely disregard the very purpose of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. So yes; they can call themselves Christians, but they aren't. To put it in perspective, most Swedes associate themselves with the Church of Sweden (or did in recent memory), but it's clear that the majority of them aren't Christians.
For me Christian = believe that Christ is God or the son of God, the Messiah and not merely a Prophet. This is a pretty large definition that includes Chalcedon-Christians but also Arians and I'm not sure but probably Mormons as well (there could be other Prophets).
But not large enough to include Islam, which is fine by me.
 

Grand Historian

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For me Christian = believe that Christ is God or the son of God, the Messiah and not merely a Prophet. This is a pretty large definition that includes Chalcedon-Christians but also Arians and I'm not sure but probably Mormons as well (there could be other Prophets).
But not large enough to include Islam, which is fine by me.

They don't believe that Christ is the Son of God, though. They believe he's or (associate him with) the Archangel Gabriel, and was created.
 

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sdms

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The fact is that Catholics and most Protestants do not recognize Mormon baptism as valid, which may be seen as not recognizing them as Christians.
 
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cpm4001

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Surely they should incorporate the Pastafarian mod before they add either Scientology or Mormonism...all hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
 

Grand Historian

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It's from wikipedia, but I'd like to know if you have conflicting sources on this.

In addition to a sizable amount of books I've read on the matter, I have the Bible itself:

John 1:1; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Now, the point of that is that Christ, and thus the Trinity, was always with God as they were God. Mormons believe that Christ was created (and do not believe in the Holy Spirit), and if Christ was created he could not be a God, and thus he could not be the center of their theology, nor could his sacrifice upon the Cross have had any meaningful impact.
 

Wizzington

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This is not the correct forum to argue who is and isn't christian.
 
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Grand Historian

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So what you're saying is: "Mormons believe in Jesus the wrong way, they can't be Christians!"

Y'know, there was Christianity before 325 (Council of Nicaea).

You realize there can't be Christianity without Christ (at it's center), right? And Nicaea reaffirmed and codified what was already the theological norm in the Christian world for three centuries; it was required in the first place because Arianism shook it up.

And no; I'm saying they're not Christian because they're Gnostics.
 
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earlofbrigand

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Not wishing to get too technical, but Mormonism isn't really a form of Christianity - since it is not a monotheistic religion (which despite the Trinity, Christianity is). For one thing, Jehovah (their God) just happens to be one of billions. In their theology, Jehovah's spirit spawn happen to inhabit this planet (having derived from Kobol).

The only similarities are the appropriate of the Christ figure.

In EU4 terms, if Mormonism was to exist, seeing as they were relatively intolerant times, they would have faced a massive amount of persecution and certainly wouldn't fall under the Protestant umbrella.
 
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yerm

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This is not the correct forum to argue who is and isn't christian.

I do hope nobody here is making this personal, if that's even what you mean. If at any point I say something that makes someone uncomfortable I sincerely apologize.

Not wishing to get too technical, but Mormonism isn't really a form of Christianity - since it is not a monotheistic religion (which despite the Trinity, Christianity is). For one thing, Jehovah (their God) just happens to be one of billions. In their theology, Jehovah's spirit spawn happen to inhabit this planet (having derived from Kobol).

The only similarities are the appropriate of the Christ figure.

In EU4 terms, if Mormonism was to exist, seeing as they were relatively intolerant times, they would have faced a massive amount of persecution and certainly wouldn't fall under the Protestant umbrella.

Judaism arguably wasn't even initially monotheistic either. It's right there in the Torah: idol worship, false gods, even a point where there's only one ragged old prophet of Yahweh left in Israel. The first commandment doesn't even sound monotheistic. So what?

Mormons were treated like absolute garbage in real history, so of course that would follow in the game. Drop an off-faith custom nation anywhere and people hate on them too, whether it's a Norse blob in Europe or a Shinto republic in Constantinople or whatever. No need to get creative here; opinion modifiers for different/heretic religion and CBs with certain ideas already exist.

As for arguing who is and isn't Christian, I would challenge anyone arguing that someone is NOT what they say that they are to ask themselves why. Whether it's a Mormon saying they are a Christian and you saying no you are not, or a person with a Y chromosome saying she's a woman and everyone and their mother linking a vanity fair article on social media to talk about trans issues, or anything in between. The burden absolutely falls on the person telling another person that they are not what they claim they are to prove it, definitively, with definitions and examples and whatever else. Until then, saying you aren't a Christian despite claiming to be because X feelings/beliefs is fallacious as an argument, and even if you CAN definitively prove it (doubtful or someone here would have) it's apparently not the forum for it, so I see no point to even go on with it. It's not like they're gonna add it like they did Judaism (which is Pagan, heh) anyway.

I suppose I'd have to see how new Protestant mechanics work before going into more than this, but, it would be AWESOME if it had an almost custom religion feel to it, where each protestant nation could choose to be the same as another (for great feels) or be unique, to simulate the many various protestant branches, complete with choices like being tolerance improving opinions or isolation to increase warring heretics, and protestant work ethic balanced with legitimacy issues and even tech issues, etc. This should, hypothetically, let someone create a Mormon religion, or Anabaptist or Scientologist or whatever you want to design and name, and be awesome. Probably a pipe dream though.
 

Wizzington

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Seems you guys didn't listen. Thread closed due to excess of thetans.
 
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