Should Ireland be a british dominion?

[MinhowMinhow]

Weren't they a british a dominion at least until 1949, with the british monarchs being at least nominally monarchs of thee country? At least in wikipedia page about dominions, they are listed as a dominion of UK in the HoI4 timeline. In the page of Irish free state, shows the british monarch as a irish monarch, but things become more complicated after the Edward VIII marriage crisis, that is a special UK event. So, should they be a dominion or not? Or is this is a thing for a "irish DLC"?

Dominion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Irish Free State - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BordergoreEnthusiast]

If they were a dominion I assume they aren't a dominion in the game because it'd have minimal effect on gameplay for UK and would probably be pretty annoying for Ireland, I guess it's the same deal as the Free city of Danzig not existing, it wouldn't really make much of a difference

 

[Znail]

Eh, read your own sources, it stopped being a dominion 1922. The only thing is that it should start out the game 1936 under the name of Irish Free State and then change name during 37 to Ireland. But that is such a nitpick detail that it doesn't really matter.

 

[GrandVezir]

Ireland shouldn't be a dominion, because in game terms that would basically force them to go to war along with the UK. They should probably start the game with the UK allowed docking rights (treaty ports), and they should definitely send volunteers* to the UK.

*Possibly just in the form of manpower. Tens of thousand of Irish nationals fought in the British Army during WW2, but they all used British arms and kit when they did.

 

[Spelaren]

Ireland shouldn't be a dominion, because in game terms that would basically force them to go to war along with the UK. They should probably start the game with the UK allowed docking rights (treaty ports), and they should definitely send volunteers* to the UK.

*Possibly just in the form of manpower. Tens of thousand of Irish nationals fought in the British Army during WW2, but they all used British arms and kit when they did.

Why did they fight for britain? A pay? A greater purpose to defeat evil personified?

 

[3ishop]

Why did they fight for britain? A pay? A greater purpose to defeat evil personified?

Most did it because they believed it was the right thing to do, it wasn't popular and I know only a few years ago the Irish state issued a pardon to their soldiers who left to fight the Axis forces.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

You mean like the Island from Denmark or Netherlands which seperate after Germany get the Main Country (I can´t remember the Name, but I think it must be Iceland or so).

 

[Vlad123]

In a mod all this and in the form of negative national spirits that you have to get rid of (you can also ask for Northern Ireland ... if you become a fascist or a communist you can conquer it with a borderconflict ... possible even with the UK at war) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2264763153&searchtext=ireland

 

[Ironside112]

Eh, read your own sources, it stopped being a dominion 1922. The only thing is that it should start out the game 1936 under the name of Irish Free State and then change name during 37 to Ireland. But that is such a nitpick detail that it doesn't really matter.

Idk where you read that Ireland stopped being a dominion in 1922 when the Irish Free State was the dominion, which was is effect from 1922-1937. In reality, it was the 1931 Statute of Westminster that gave it independence, but no more nominally than Canada, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. The reason their name changed in 1937 was actually rather a big deal - it was when they officially declared themselves independent from the UK - they replaced the Governor General with a President among other things that positioned their independence. Interestingly, they still had the same monarch as Britain until 1948, when in the constitution, they would change their name from "Ireland" to the "Republic of Ireland", finally cutting ties with the Empire. If they were to be correctly modelled in game, which really should be done in an expansion if anything cause of their minor role, they'd need to be recategorized as a Dominion until the signing of the constitution in 1937, maybe with some NS which impact how Britain can interact with them until the 1948 constitution, when they got complete independence.

 

[Mike6979]

If nothing else, they should be guaranteed by the UK to stop MP shenanigans.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

It should be implemented when Ireland gets an own focus tree. In 1936, Ireland should be a dominion, and the main political branch would choice between:

• becoming independent quickly (historical path). Proclaiming a republic would probably allow forming an own faction like NZ.
• staying a dominion in exchange for boons (economical investment, Irish reunification)
• Join the Axis or Comintern and retake Northern Ireland by force.

If Ireland chooses independence while UK is run by Edward VIII or the Blackshirts, they should have the option to invade.

In 1939 Irleand should be halfway through the historical branch (already independent but not yet a republic)

 

[Znail]

I disagree, they claimed their independence in 1922, while it was in 1931 that UK accepted that so is it more important when Ireland considered themself free. Same with them in 37 ratifying their new constitution making it their official date of forming Ireland. But do you think that they would have meekly followed any demands by UK during 36?

 

[DystopianAlphaOmega]

The thing is, in practical terms, Ireland didn’t behave like a dominion, even though they were one. In game terms, even in an early war situation (say 1936 over Rhineland), Ireland wasn’t going to join the war with the leadership they were under. There was no real question about the rest of the dominions doing so (besides sort of South Africa, but even there the British had much more influence to strong-arm the government into accepting if necessary).

As for British guarantees, there should honestly be a lot more starting guarantees by the majors all over the world, and especially Europe, but this would require a rebalance of the guarantee cost system and may be too restrictive on players playing minors.

 

[him_15]

Definitely not.

 

[Ironside112]

The thing is, in practical terms, Ireland didn’t behave like a dominion, even though they were one. In game terms, even in an early war situation (say 1936 over Rhineland), Ireland wasn’t going to join the war with the leadership they were under. There was no real question about the rest of the dominions doing so (besides sort of South Africa, but even there the British had much more influence to strong-arm the government into accepting if necessary).

As for British guarantees, there should honestly be a lot more starting guarantees by the majors all over the world, and especially Europe, but this would require a rebalance of the guarantee cost system and may be too restrictive on players playing minors.

best solution to that would be to make dominions more independent than they currently are (as there were historically) south Africa was the only dominion where Britain could have major influence, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all joined the war with a degree of independence, Australia would become more US aligned during the war for example.

if I were to make a proposition, dominions should be able to decline calls to war to reflect this and maybe not be able to have their divisions just taken like other autonomy tiers. just my input on it.

I disagree, they claimed their independence in 1922, while it was in 1931 that UK accepted that so is it more important when Ireland considered themself free. Same with them in 37 ratifying their new constitution making it their official date of forming Ireland. But do you think that they would have meekly followed any demands by UK during 36?

a lot of people look at the dominions in hoi and think that they're an accurate portrayal when in reality, they weren't. for all intents and purposes, the dominions were completely independent, Irish Free State included, but had some vestiges of British rule left over. Ireland would still be a dominion until the ratification of the 1937 constitution, at which point it was still UK aligned until 1948. this isn't an endorsement for the Irish to be portrayed correctly yet either, the game has more pressing issues, but it'd be something nice to see in the future, like an independent Egypt.

and with demands, I mentioned that In my response to the other post

 

[Louella]

If Ireland ever got its own focus tree, expect a whole lot of horrendously memey alt-history things. Such as explicitly offering Nazi Germany submarine basing rights (there are persistent rumours/theories about U-Boats refuelling in Irish ports during the war). Or the argument about how not enough grain was being exported to fuel the Guinness brewery at the height of the U-boat campaign. Or about the IRA actively helping the Nazis.

 

[Telenil]

It could, if it gets its own focus tree. It would simply be a Dominion where the historical branch is the equivalent of Patriation/Never an Other Gallipoli, while the standard "help the UK" other Dominions use would be alt-history.

 

[Me_]

The thing is, in practical terms, Ireland didn’t behave like a dominion, even though they were one. In game terms, even in an early war situation (say 1936 over Rhineland), Ireland wasn’t going to join the war with the leadership they were under. There was no real question about the rest of the dominions doing so (besides sort of South Africa, but even there the British had much more influence to strong-arm the government into accepting if necessary).

Manchukuo has its own unique type of subject relation available. Maybe Ireland should as well, at least in 1936 start, to let it not join UK's wars, with a small focus tree to get rid of it and grew even more distant from the UK (or not, alternative paths are a big thing in HoI4).

 

[Dlin369]

I think Ireland should have a national spirit, maybe called "A Dominion in Name..." that serves as an introduction to their focus tree and allows them options to how they wish to approach the Allies or seek support from other nations

 

[riadach]

Idk where you read that Ireland stopped being a dominion in 1922 when the Irish Free State was the dominion, which was is effect from 1922-1937. In reality, it was the 1931 Statute of Westminster that gave it independence, but no more nominally than Canada, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. The reason their name changed in 1937 was actually rather a big deal - it was when they officially declared themselves independent from the UK - they replaced the Governor General with a President among other things that positioned their independence. Interestingly, they still had the same monarch as Britain until 1948, when in the constitution, they would change their name from "Ireland" to the "Republic of Ireland", finally cutting ties with the Empire. If they were to be correctly modelled in game, which really should be done in an expansion if anything cause of their minor role, they'd need to be recategorized as a Dominion until the signing of the constitution in 1937, maybe with some NS which impact how Britain can interact with them until the 1948 constitution, when they got complete independence.

Ireland claimed that the Statuteof Westminster merely recognised the position it had already achieved under the Anglo- Irish treaty of 1922.