Should i update or produce new units as USSR?????

[him_15]

Well....while playing as USSR i have no idea how many IC should i put on updating. Since it's in full dwaft army and central planning. Updating takes year to do so. And USSR got tons of old stuff waiting to be updated. On the other hand, it's a long time before in war with Geramny. SO wouldn't it be wasting supplies if i start producing unit from the start??? I really need some help.....

 

[Wolfhead]

Have not tried playing as USSR yet but what I think I will do when I try it out, is to skip upgrading (at least regarding infantry) and put all obsolete units as a first line of defence on the border against Germany, then research better models and when Barbarossa draws close I will start a bunch of long serial builds of better units. The first years I would go with producing supplies, building forts, IC, airfields, AA etc. and, if I decide to build them, tranport planes & strat.bombers and/or other time consuming units. This is of course in SP, in 1936GC and with a decent "historical approach" of playing.
Someone who have actually played as USSR could probably give you much better advice.

Whatever you do, IMO, you should not waste much on upgrading in the beginning, it's better to wait until you have researched more advanced models. It seems that you get a reduced upgrading time when you have several techs ahead of the models to upgrade, i.e upgrading inf. 1918 to 1936 goes faster if you have the 1939 tech and even faster if you have the 1941 tech as well.

 

[De Savage]

Whatever you do, IMO, you should not waste much on upgrading in the beginning, it's better to wait until you have researched more advanced models. It seems that you get a reduced upgrading time when you have several techs ahead of the models to upgrade, i.e upgrading inf. 1918 to 1936 goes faster if you have the 1939 tech and even faster if you have the 1941 tech as well.

Yeap, Wolfhead is right here. You should not upgrade before getting 1939 or 1941 techs. Rush those infantry techs and begin MAJOR upgrade 1940 and be ready just for 1941 summer. Remember to begin few serial builds too as soon as you get 1941 techs. If Germany attack early, keep your old units in front and save new units until Germany is near Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. Then begin you massive winter counter assault. That time you will have experienced leaders and new units. Sweeeet surprise for the Germany. USSR can loose land after you have builded more factories behind the Urals.

First years, build up you ICs! Remember to place you industries far behind lines. Build ICs and research before building up forces. You have enough ICs to build up decent Baltic fleet. Its always nice to surprise Germany from the sea. I dont usually build new land units before 1939. I only play SP so human Germany will kick my butt if he attacks early.

 

[unmerged(46065)]

Isn't that the eternal question?

Really though, for me it's preferance, I find it a bit gamey, the only things I disband are old ships and Mountain Divisions(Mountain divisions eat babies o.o). I spend a year or 2 mostly upgrading with minimal builds, and later, attention to CG(I don't wanna kill my generals, Stalin was frikkin' nuts).

 

[him_15]

Ok, thans so much for your opinions. and what about the politic slider? which way do i have to go?

 

[null]

Depends.

If you want to win in the pure game sense then disband all 1918 inf and rebuild when you have got 1939 inf.

On the other hand if you to simulate the Reds in WW2 then keep all units, set a few of the more valuable ones as priority and keep your IC investment in upgrades very low. Don't build much before 1939 then after the winter war build long, long (10-15) serials of whatever inf is your maximum tech.

 

[Wolfhead]

Ok, thans so much for your opinions. and what about the politic slider? which way do i have to go?

Well, don't know if they get any free moves from events, but without taking that in account i'd start with moving towards 'hawk lobby' to begin with, then later after i've build up the army perhaps move a bit towards 'standing army' to improve my org and reduce time/cost for upgrades.
Don't know what's really the most benificial, I guess it depends on the circumstances and what you're planning to do.

 

[Delor]

I think that this is a matter of taste ...

I prefere upgrading! But not as soon as the Game beginns. In the Beginning i'll build up IC a little bit and move the Army-Slider from Standing Army to Prof. Army over the first 2-3 Years ...

Youre Troops get better Exp.-Bonuses and it takes less time and IC to modernize the Units. On the other Side serial Production becames more expensive and takes more time.

But to me it never made a difference, 'cause i use serial Production very sparely. And i think that "paying" 20% more on a serial Run is the better Choice then spending 70% more IC and Time on upgrading 400 Divisions

 

[unmerged(51925)]

The USSR as I was told when I asked. Most people told me to just remake my whole army because they said it was too costly to update them all.

 

[unmerged(42434)]

to update the russian army it will take a lot longer than it does to upgrade anyother army the amount of ic per unit is alot higher than most countries so it costs over 1000ic just to upgrade the army you start with then along with that it takes about 2 months for most units to be made so if you work this out in ic*days for both upgrading and building a new army it works out to be severly cheaper to re build the army

 

[Filou]

Whatever you do, IMO, you should not waste much on upgrading in the beginning, it's better to wait until you have researched more advanced models. It seems that you get a reduced upgrading time when you have several techs ahead of the models to upgrade, i.e upgrading inf. 1918 to 1936 goes faster if you have the 1939 tech and even faster if you have the 1941 tech as well.

It's not so much the new INF models that reduce the cost of upgrading, but all the side techs that reduce the overall price of new units.
The land doctrines reduce the price of new INF, and since upgrading is based on the current build price, overall upgrade price is reduced. Same goes for assembly techs, they reduce the time of construction of new units, and so they reduce the time of upgraing.
While waiting for war, one usually moves his slider towars Hawk lobby, which in turn also reduces the price and time of units. Of course going away from full drafted is also a solution to reduce upgrade time and cost.

In any cases, I would recommend agaisnt upgrading, since building will always be cheaper than upgrading for you unles you make some major slider changes.
Maybe make an exception for those units that have survived long enough and did not suffer too much casualties.

 

[Wolfhead]

It's not so much the new INF models that reduce the cost of upgrading, but all the side techs that reduce the overall price of new units.
The land doctrines reduce the price of new INF, and since upgrading is based on the current build price, overall upgrade price is reduced. Same goes for assembly techs, they reduce the time of construction of new units, and so they reduce the time of upgraing.
While waiting for war, one usually moves his slider towars Hawk lobby, which in turn also reduces the price and time of units. Of course going away from full drafted is also a solution to reduce upgrade time and cost.

But there *is* some sort of time reduction for upgrading when you are several techs ahead, isn't it?. Did some testing once and it showed that upgrading from tech model 0 to 1 were faster when you also had tech 2 and even faster if you had tech 3. I didn't move any sliders or researched other techs.

 

[Kanitatlan]

On upgrading, as SU I make it a rule to never upgrade. Just build new units, it isn't a question of whether it is cheaper to upgrade or replace; what you should actually do is add new units and keep the old ones. You can start disbanding the old ones once you have decided they aren't very useful and the manpower is better elsewhere. At the start you can consider disbanding any units that you know you are going to disband before using to save the supplies.

For sliders consider the following.

You get all but one hawk slides from events
You get all but three interventionism from events.

If you avoid the winter war you need an extra interventionism move.

If you refuse the purges then you need two more hawk moves from annual slider steps. You can do these before the purges but you will be deferring interventionism moves.

If you don't have full interventionism by fall 1939 then DOWing the Baltics adn the winter war will cost dissent. However, if you accept 'we will take what we asked for' on the winter war then ending it fixes the dissent. You can also use the 'inherit eastern poland' event after poland falls to clear dissent from attacking the Baltics.

If you trade with the baltics then they will be at +50 relations when you start demanding territory which gives 20% success rate instead of the 10% you would get with the more normal -ve relations.

You should be able to carry out at least three rounds of IC builds as Russia before starting to build any units. With 1.3a you can achieve 2 doctrines, small arms assembly line and 1941 Infantry for Nov 1st 1940 which will let you build 4 rounds of divisions for 5th June 1941.

 

[The_Kaiser]

Ive played a few times as SU, and I dont bother with the upgrade slider in the beginning. Generally since there is a lot of dissent, I keep all my IC in production and consumer goods. I found that your industry gets a huge boost after about 1 year when your dissent is zero.

Basically my plan is as follows for single player:

Build IC until 1939
Get dissent down to zero ASAP
Dont kill the generals (yes it hurts the dissent, but helps in the long run)
Organize all the mobile units (tanks, mobile infantry, cavalry) into several units without slow 1918 infantry

All the while I am moving towards standing army. (Usually events unfold so there is no need to mess with hawk, or intervention due to triggered events)
Once you have moved a few tics towards standing army, your dissent is zero, and most of your industry is completed, I would then begin to upgrade mobile units using the prioritize button.

After I start occupying territory, I will move towards open society to help with the partisan problem.

Messing with the left and right aspect helps if you want to try and ally with the Axis. However, moving SU towards right hurts when it comes to ministers; there are many who disappear and you will find the choices under a fascist regime limiting. If want to go Axis, I would also suggest spending more time on researching Air and Naval units because the allies are more of a threat in those areas than their land units.

Im sure most of what I said is similar to earlier posts, but I hope this helps.

 

[th3freakie]

(Mountain divisions eat babies o.o).

What did you expect, theyr'e commies!

 

[Iosoncoluicheé]

If want to go Axis, I would also suggest spending more time on researching Air and Naval units because the allies are more of a threat in those areas than their land units.

I also would suggest to prepare for a quite short and not too exciting game

 

[unmerged(46065)]

What did you expect, theyr'e commies!

Not just communist Mountain Divisions, all Mountain divisions eat babies. I think it's from being up in the cold mountains....No women for miles, no civilization, surrounded by soldiers in precarious positions....So they eat babies.

Btw I still stand by do w/e the hell you want as the SU, if you lose I laugh at you like a madman.

 

[Aracnid99]

I always do a mix. i.e. upgrade all to 39 by 41 etc and cont. exapand with new up to date units.

 

[unmerged(44147)]

I played the USSR a few times and I usually do a combination of things to get my forces ready to face to German juggernaut. Naturally I build some industries in the Urals and immediatly start researching land doctrines, more advanced artillery and such. Along with that I change from drafted army - to standing army as much as possibly (gives my units some much needed org. points and upgrade times decrease) together with that I'll build some land fortresses along the Dnjepr and Dvina rivers (these big rivers that some together near Smolensk. Along the way I'll produce some more infantry an brigades with it

Provided I picked the right combination of things I'll be more or less ready to face to facist hordes in '41/'42 With mostly '41 infantry with somewhat new artillery/ rocket artillery and some engineers. I usually retreat from the border into my prepared lines along the Dnjepr and Dvina trying to wear the Germans down a bit by an occasional counter attack and some delaying actions. By the time I'll setup positions on my river line the Germans will be somewhat battered to a point where I can effectively hold my own against their forces. By that time I have some tanks/motorized units waiting behing the lines in the North, Middle and South ready to counter any German breakthrough at any time (after all I can't 100% rule out that possibility) Then it's a matter of holding them down and building my own forces up to a point where my own advance towards Berlin can start.

 

[unmerged(46065)]

Ya those rivers do make excellent defensive positions, that's what I did in the Barbarossa battlescenario(btw, why does it give u paratroopers with no transport places? :wacko: ), had them pushed back to just about the original border I think when it ended. In actual games though....I'm usually powerful enough to attack them and some of my leaders are usually experienced from the asian theatre(against Nationalist China)

Indeed, RIP in Cliff Burton, wonder what Metallica would be like if he was still around.