More like... they'll come out with HoI4 and the hardcore strategians will be hiding behind an equivalent of AoD (using clausewitz), defending the old and rejecting the new as buggy/undeveloped/flawed...
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More like... they'll come out with HoI4 and the hardcore strategians will be hiding behind an equivalent of AoD (using clausewitz), defending the old and rejecting the new as buggy/undeveloped/flawed...
After glaciers melting only hardcores will survive,and HOI IV will evolve from healthy roots again.
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Whatayouknow.
Oh,well, whats left is Arsenal of Democracy.
Its 3 days left,and than untill glaciers start to retreat.
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Very qualified comment...
It's a public beta and of course there are bugs. You all wanted a public beta and now you have to deal with the bugs, report them and help to bring 1.4 to its final release candidate.
@OP: Check the changelog of 1.4 and you will see that HOI3 is on a good way. 1.4 final will improve it in many ways and it will be time to buy it (if you haven't bought it yet).
1.4 might have increased speed, but some aspects have gotten really weird. Nationalist China joining Comintern and Communist China joins Allies, while both are Allied.
Also Germany doesnt do Fall Gelb nor Barbarossa, only invasion of Scandinavia. Japan is quickly kicked out of Asia by SU and falls asleep for the rest of game. No Pearl Harbour, no Pacific War. British easily kicked out of Africa by Italy.
And then in late september 1942 SU declares war on Germany. Soviets forces need only two months to liberate Poland, capture Hungary and take Berlin. The Germans are just completely overrun and annihilated easily.
1.4 needs a lot of improvement in my opinion.
Also Germany doesnt do Fall Gelb nor Barbarossa, only invasion of Scandinavia. Japan is quickly kicked out of Asia by SU and falls asleep for the rest of game. No Pearl Harbour, no Pacific War. British easily kicked out of Africa by Italy.
And then in late september 1942 SU declares war on Germany. Soviets forces need only two months to liberate Poland, capture Hungary and take Berlin
. The Germans are just completely overrun and annihilated easily.1.4 needs a lot of improvement in my opinion.
simple all encompassing answer:
Get Hoi3 if you have a v. high end gaming machine
Get Hoi2, doomsday + ama or wait for AoD, if you have an older machine, ie, less than 4 gigs of ram
Get Hoi3 if you have a v. high end gaming machine
Get Hoi2, doomsday + ama or wait for AoD, if you have an older machine, ie, less than 4 gigs of ram
It is more of the same. People that like HOI3 will love the patch. People that don't like HOI3 will hate it.
I have long been a fan of hoi2 series and made world both red, blue and much of the time gray since 2006. I tested hoi3 last year I think it was with the V.1.1 patch but after one gaming year with Germany the was going very slow. Is it my computer of was there some problem with the game. I have read many places the game is broken there is bug here and there. Even so I am tempted by this game. It has a bit to many provinces for my small grays in my very head and I get a bit frustrated sometimes for that.
But shall I buy this game
If you've been playing hoi2 for a substantial amount of time, chances are high you'll be highly dissapointed with hoi3. Nations of the same size all feel the same, the game is FULL of bugs, from minor annoyances to major game-breakers.
There are very few events, the AI is totally inefficient, passive and stupid. The game is way too easy because of that.
If you can get the game for 5€ go ahead and try it (it's not worth any more than that) but I suggest you wait for major user mods. This is the only hope left for this game, the modder community...
I'd say if you have waited so long then wait until the patch 1.4 is final and if people are satisfied with it, buy the game. There are some very promising things in 1.4. but due to the bugs we can't fully judge how good the game will be. Also as 1.4. is so close there is no point in learning it on 1.3. or jump to the beta process now.
Well, I think a true improvement will be after an expansion. Expansion or mods are the only way to bring in content which is lacking, because otherwise they don't have what to patch.
Should you Hearts of Iron 3?
Should you buy Hearts of Iron 3?
Yet?
Maybe, maybe not.
List of obvious problems.
1. The lack of the condor legion event (not to mention numerous "events") and subsequent lack of experience impacting on early German war preparations is glaring and offers the first evidence of Paradoxes sloppy production for this issue of HOI 3. Another rather disconcerting feature was watching French Infantry "outmarch" German Infantry in early campaigns as a regular pattern (Highly Amusing but hardly Historical).
2. The creation of the Division by design system is a good idea but to leave out Brigadier Generals and Leaders for one brigade units draws the line in the wrong place.
3. The creating of the HQ command system and creation system is an excellent idea but the viewing for the command structure and order of battle is difficult to read. The expanded mapboard also a great idea. Unfortunately, the reworked movement speed system is out of alignment. The reworked Strategic Redeployment system is a much improved step in the right direction.
4. The old HOI2 enabled links from the statistics screen. Why doesn't the HOI3 enable links? A sloppy rush to production?
5. A number of adjustment codes (cheat codes) have been left out or are undiscovered. Play balance is a matter of opinion among History buffs but leaving out the adjustment codes forces players to put up with the designer's idiotic (my opinion) opinions is hardly an improvement over HOI 2.
6. The manual leaves out a number of important instructions and design parameters leaving players to discover (sometimes painfully) the "opinions" of the designers and the impact of those idiotic "opinions" on game play.
7. The mapboard is "cluttered" needlessly and lacking in links that would aid playability.
8. The economic system is now a disaster relegating trade as a permanent failure. While it may the opinion of many "modern armchair generals" that American capitalist ideas relating to trade and economic policy have no impact or a negative impact on warfare, I submit that the same "modern armchair idiots" of the modern Pentagon culture have sat of their fat butts while America has drifted in a 12.2 National Debt situation with the rest of the world. A Duh.
9. The additional restraints and reworking of the "political system" interface is also reflective of the modern American Pentagon culture (a culture tied to the 12.2 Trillion National Debt that may add America to list of ex-Great Powers). Creating a system that allows no major changes (Ex removing the "Freedom" command from the adjustment codes is reflective of the same dogmatic stupidity and fanatical adherence to "Doctrine" that has kept American "grunts" hopping in and out of Helicopters and Humvees to retake the same ground over and over and over again.
10. Perhaps the most embarrassing design flaw or rework is the idea system that "public education" leads to officer creation leading to leadership in officer creation, diplomatic gains, espionage gains and technological gains.
Further there is no major or significant link between "economic dollars and trade" to diplomatic ability and intelligence abilities. While this might have been true of the Soviet Union from 1917 to the 1990's, it was hardly true of 20th mid-century Europe. The entire concept of "delinking leadership and technology" is what one might expect of a
software geek educated in "liberal theology" or dated "Soviet Bloc" schooling.
America currently leads the world in education spending per student (exponentially) and yet is last in educational achievement in the industrialized world. What liberal idiotic appointed spawn of a liberal politician managed to input the idea that "good ideas" in the private sector come from "officers" and is separated from economic production or influences? The greatest leaders and finest American Military leaders had little or no military experience or "formal modern military training whatsoever". George Washington himself had only several years experience in the army. Nathaniel Green? James Madison? Henry Knox? The Swamp Fox? The officers who led America through World War II? What have the "geniuses" of the Pentagon achieved since World War II and the creation of the Social Welfare State and the Military Industrial Complex?
North Korea?
Piles of Skulls in Cambodia?
Communist China?
Abandoned Helicopter pads in Vietnam
12.2 Trillion dollars in National Debt?
An Entitlement Jobs program for Trailer Trash in the guise of "service"?
Having an opinion on these subjects on the part of the developers is hardly unexpected or “fraudulent” but the lack of adjustment codes and pointed departures from HOI 2 structures in the above respects points up to a disappointing lapse on the part of Paradox. Hopefully, come major corrections and improvements addressing these issues will show up in later patches. Lastly, it is a certainty, that a number of “geeks” and the usual “retired military getting welfare/entitlement” checks will consider these comments as overly political as a result of their opposing biases and self interested self-indulgences. As the game itself delves into the interaction between economics, “politics” and warfare, these comments can hardly be considered “off topic” except by those who are uneducated and ignorant to the point of being able to offer any other reply or response other than childish squeaming and silly accusations of being “off topic”.
In Summary, clearly HOI 3 is in need of some major modifications.
Should you buy Hearts of Iron 3?
Yet?
Maybe, maybe not.
List of obvious problems.
1. The lack of the condor legion event (not to mention numerous "events") and subsequent lack of experience impacting on early German war preparations is glaring and offers the first evidence of Paradoxes sloppy production for this issue of HOI 3. Another rather disconcerting feature was watching French Infantry "outmarch" German Infantry in early campaigns as a regular pattern (Highly Amusing but hardly Historical).
2. The creation of the Division by design system is a good idea but to leave out Brigadier Generals and Leaders for one brigade units draws the line in the wrong place.
3. The creating of the HQ command system and creation system is an excellent idea but the viewing for the command structure and order of battle is difficult to read. The expanded mapboard also a great idea. Unfortunately, the reworked movement speed system is out of alignment. The reworked Strategic Redeployment system is a much improved step in the right direction.
4. The old HOI2 enabled links from the statistics screen. Why doesn't the HOI3 enable links? A sloppy rush to production?
5. A number of adjustment codes (cheat codes) have been left out or are undiscovered. Play balance is a matter of opinion among History buffs but leaving out the adjustment codes forces players to put up with the designer's idiotic (my opinion) opinions is hardly an improvement over HOI 2.
6. The manual leaves out a number of important instructions and design parameters leaving players to discover (sometimes painfully) the "opinions" of the designers and the impact of those idiotic "opinions" on game play.
7. The mapboard is "cluttered" needlessly and lacking in links that would aid playability.
8. The economic system is now a disaster relegating trade as a permanent failure. While it may the opinion of many "modern armchair generals" that American capitalist ideas relating to trade and economic policy have no impact or a negative impact on warfare, I submit that the same "modern armchair idiots" of the modern Pentagon culture have sat of their fat butts while America has drifted in a 12.2 National Debt situation with the rest of the world. A Duh.
9. The additional restraints and reworking of the "political system" interface is also reflective of the modern American Pentagon culture (a culture tied to the 12.2 Trillion National Debt that may add America to list of ex-Great Powers). Creating a system that allows no major changes (Ex removing the "Freedom" command from the adjustment codes is reflective of the same dogmatic stupidity and fanatical adherence to "Doctrine" that has kept American "grunts" hopping in and out of Helicopters and Humvees to retake the same ground over and over and over again.
10. Perhaps the most embarrassing design flaw or rework is the idea system that "public education" leads to officer creation leading to leadership in officer creation, diplomatic gains, espionage gains and technological gains.
Further there is no major or significant link between "economic dollars and trade" to diplomatic ability and intelligence abilities. While this might have been true of the Soviet Union from 1917 to the 1990's, it was hardly true of 20th mid-century Europe. The entire concept of "delinking leadership and technology" is what one might expect of a
software geek educated in "liberal theology" or dated "Soviet Bloc" schooling.
America currently leads the world in education spending per student (exponentially) and yet is last in educational achievement in the industrialized world. What liberal idiotic appointed spawn of a liberal politician managed to input the idea that "good ideas" in the private sector come from "officers" and is separated from economic production or influences? The greatest leaders and finest American Military leaders had little or no military experience or "formal modern military training whatsoever". George Washington himself had only several years experience in the army. Nathaniel Green? James Madison? Henry Knox? The Swamp Fox? The officers who led America through World War II? What have the "geniuses" of the Pentagon achieved since World War II and the creation of the Social Welfare State and the Military Industrial Complex?
North Korea?
Piles of Skulls in Cambodia?
Communist China?
Abandoned Helicopter pads in Vietnam
12.2 Trillion dollars in National Debt?
An Entitlement Jobs program for Trailer Trash in the guise of "service"?
Having an opinion on these subjects on the part of the developers is hardly unexpected or “fraudulent” but the lack of adjustment codes and pointed departures from HOI 2 structures in the above respects points up to a disappointing lapse on the part of Paradox. Hopefully, come major corrections and improvements addressing these issues will show up in later patches. Lastly, it is a certainty, that a number of “geeks” and the usual “retired military getting welfare/entitlement” checks will consider these comments as overly political as a result of their opposing biases and self interested self-indulgences. As the game itself delves into the interaction between economics, “politics” and warfare, these comments can hardly be considered “off topic” except by those who are uneducated and ignorant to the point of being able to offer any other reply or response other than childish squeaming and silly accusations of being “off topic”.
In Summary, clearly HOI 3 is in need of some major modifications.
Very qualified comment...
It's a public beta and of course there are bugs. You all wanted a public beta and now you have to deal with the bugs, report them and help to bring 1.4 to its final release candidate.
@OP: Check the changelog of 1.4 and you will see that HOI3 is on a good way. 1.4 final will improve it in many ways and it will be time to buy it (if you haven't bought it yet).
One problem is list of bugs.
Different problem are inherent design features which has no power to justifie expectations about sequel of the "most complex ww2 grand strategy franchise ever ",especialy compared with HOI II design that still stays as monument of simplicity,eye candy,geopolithical realism ,overall ingenuity.
The AoD ("HOI II on steroids" ) could possibly beat HOI III as it is now. Despite AoD being without such advanced commanding system,that,though incomplete in HOI III considdering airforce and navy is ,objecively, great achievement of its own.
HOI III should have bein HOI II on steroids,like Arsenal of Democracy which is released now, with more advanced command system,and that will be game that will shake foundations of world of grand strategies.
Its hard to avoid impression that HOI III design was to ambitious.
Release of Arsenal of Democracy based on HOI II engine,half year afer liftof of HOI III,is andeniably fact that HOI III didnt reach expected orbit.
AoD,another Paradox game is thankfuly just to be released-look just those polished features,eye-candy, historical spices,and ovehaul of old HOI II design that will offer economic,research,production and intel realism comparable to HOI III(except in command system),and that will have geopolithical reality virtualy ancomparably higher than HO III.
HOI II engine is still capable to compete wih HOI III?
Anfortunately yes, and possibly even beat him in practice.
HOI III still I believe have a chance in one powerfull addon.
We can argue about many things,but one thing is for certain, HOI III dont offer satissfaction to such number of people like HOI II did(and still does).If forum is criteria for that ,and I believe it is criteria of the first order.
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Very qualified comment...
It's a public beta and of course there are bugs. You all wanted a public beta and now you have to deal with the bugs, report them and help to bring 1.4 to its final release candidate.
@OP: Check the changelog of 1.4 and you will see that HOI3 is on a good way. 1.4 final will improve it in many ways and it will be time to buy it (if you haven't bought it yet).
A public beta is supposed to have AT THE VERY least ironed out the major bugs of the previous versions, otherwise it's pointless. Ok so now we pointed out to paradox all the NEW bugs they added to the game (do they really need us to figure out their game CTD on exit). How does that help fixing the OLD ones?
don't. I bought every single paradox game, and they all started out bad. but this one is the worst release I've yet to see. in fact, this is the one and only paradox game I wouldn't recommend. or even recommend against buying. if there are any paradox games you haven't bought, do yourself a favor and buy one of them. you'll have fun i promise. but. **STAY AWAY** FROM THIS GAME.
for example, after 4th patch..
1) theater AI sucks. It can still give you extremely weird theatres. and no you can't define your own theatres, you are stuck with the ones AI gave you
2) its very hard to organize your forces. they could have made an interface that helped you, but they didn't so instead you have to click a gazillion times to create your armies, assign leaders, etc.
3) its still possible to do extremely ahistorical things (for example, its very easy (and with guaranteed success) as soviets or germans to overthrow the US government and make it a fascist/communist one)
4) supply system is still just wrong. its possible to lose out all of your supplies because of a bug (although I've only seen this in forums, never happened to me)
5) USA creates 700 divisions and they all sit in either san francisco or washington dc. they only attack you with around 20% of their forces at maximum (again, I've seen the US attack me, but only with a very weak force. however, there are people reporting higher numbers, so I'm taking their word for it). amphibious assaults were never the strong point of AI's in HoI2 too, though, so I'm OK with this one.
6) BITTER PEACE EVENT IS STILL BUGGED!!! i cannot believe this. soviets still get bessarabia after bitter peace. I've even seen a post-1.4 screenshot showing soviets getting some of finland after bitter peace.
7) weird stuff like triangles on maps (I don't have them though), ahistorical diplomatic actions even in hands off games, etc.
I can go on.
buying this game right now is like making a 10 year old messi your right winger. just because it has potential doesn't mean it's a good idea.
for example, after 4th patch..
1) theater AI sucks. It can still give you extremely weird theatres. and no you can't define your own theatres, you are stuck with the ones AI gave you
2) its very hard to organize your forces. they could have made an interface that helped you, but they didn't so instead you have to click a gazillion times to create your armies, assign leaders, etc.
3) its still possible to do extremely ahistorical things (for example, its very easy (and with guaranteed success) as soviets or germans to overthrow the US government and make it a fascist/communist one)
4) supply system is still just wrong. its possible to lose out all of your supplies because of a bug (although I've only seen this in forums, never happened to me)
5) USA creates 700 divisions and they all sit in either san francisco or washington dc. they only attack you with around 20% of their forces at maximum (again, I've seen the US attack me, but only with a very weak force. however, there are people reporting higher numbers, so I'm taking their word for it). amphibious assaults were never the strong point of AI's in HoI2 too, though, so I'm OK with this one.
6) BITTER PEACE EVENT IS STILL BUGGED!!! i cannot believe this. soviets still get bessarabia after bitter peace. I've even seen a post-1.4 screenshot showing soviets getting some of finland after bitter peace.
7) weird stuff like triangles on maps (I don't have them though), ahistorical diplomatic actions even in hands off games, etc.
I can go on.
buying this game right now is like making a 10 year old messi your right winger. just because it has potential doesn't mean it's a good idea.