Should hospitals be abstracted into passive tech?

[scarface2cz]

I couldnt for the love of almighty god figure out proper use for hospitals. Due to rather high cost, low manpower nations that could benefit from it dont have industry to support them, high manpower countries dont need them and even if you do decide to use them, they smother attack potential of units-you could have added support arty/rocket arty, signal company, logistics or maintenance that do have tangible effect on the battlefield (XP saving doesnt seem to have any effect since XP levels are way too far from each other-if they were sliding scale, hospitals would be far better)

EIther there should be passive tech that would add manpower saving effect and XP saving effect on all divisions equally or hospitals need further buffs-like increasing ORG due to ability to save officers or soldiers fighting better knowing they have doctors behind them or whatever.

thoughts?

 

[Dlin369]

If casualties actually affected war support (I personally think war support should be constantly ticking down and players need to manage it),I think hospitals might have some more utility besides for flavor.
With the current system yeah I think hospitals should at least give some passive buffs to compensate for the fact they aren't super useful as support companies.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

I couldnt for the love of almighty god figure out proper use for hospitals. Due to rather high cost, low manpower nations that could benefit from it dont have industry to support them, high manpower countries dont need them and even if you do decide to use them, they smother attack potential of units-you could have added support arty/rocket arty, signal company, logistics or maintenance that do have tangible effect on the battlefield (XP saving doesnt seem to have any effect since XP levels are way too far from each other-if they were sliding scale, hospitals would be far better)

EIther there should be passive tech that would add manpower saving effect and XP saving effect on all divisions equally or hospitals need further buffs-like increasing ORG due to ability to save officers or soldiers fighting better knowing they have doctors behind them or whatever.

thoughts?

Yes. More support companies and less drastic cost, negative modifiers would alos help.

 

[Anaraxes]

Hospitals were once fairly popular for support in divisions, especially infantry. Manpower conservation and expenditure was a thing -- running out of manpower put an end to your war, and that resource had to be managed. Then the manpower supply got turned up. So, the simple answer might be just to reduce the available manpower.

They also were occasionally regarded for their benefit in maintaining the expertise of an elite division. It's hard to stay elite if you're constantly bringing in green replacements for your casualties.

 

[Morbus Bubbonicus]

Hospitals are not viable as an attachment, it's a roleplay feature or noob trap. Majors hardly need it and for minors your should have space marines to prevent losses from happening. The bonus is negligable even for exp saving.

 

[kimidf]

also other support companies should be reworked as maintenance. Since the divisions should gain a percentage of enemy light weapons, even if it were minimal, without the need to put this company in support, only this company would increase the percentage of this type of weaponry and the ability to seize enemy heavy weapons

 

[Maxwell Tornado]

This is just on me, not an opinion on the actual stats, but I feel morally bad, if I don't add field hospitals. Like, I could've expended less manpower to achieve the same results, if I did.

 

[FindFloppies]

This is just on me, not an opinion on the actual stats, but I feel morally bad, if I don't add field hospitals. Like, I could've expended less manpower to achieve the same results, if I did.

i feel it's easier now with the more flexible combat width (i.e. not forced into 20/40) to move AA and Arty into line battalions, leaving more space for support groups. Of course, if you're running mods for 6/10/12 slots, nevermind!

 

[jared2122]

If casualties actually affected war support (I personally think war support should be constantly ticking down and players need to manage it),I think hospitals might have some more utility besides for flavor.
With the current system yeah I think hospitals should at least give some passive buffs to compensate for the fact they aren't super useful as support companies.

I agree. I had a similar thought, that countries should see hits to their war support after big casualty events or meeting certain casualty thresholds. The penalty could be substantially higher for democratic nations, lower for the totalitarian ones.

 

[Ibn_Solmyr]

I couldnt for the love of almighty god figure out proper use for hospitals. Due to rather high cost, low manpower nations that could benefit from it dont have industry to support them, high manpower countries dont need them and even if you do decide to use them, they smother attack potential of units-you could have added support arty/rocket arty, signal company, logistics or maintenance that do have tangible effect on the battlefield (XP saving doesnt seem to have any effect since XP levels are way too far from each other-if they were sliding scale, hospitals would be far better)

EIther there should be passive tech that would add manpower saving effect and XP saving effect on all divisions equally or hospitals need further buffs-like increasing ORG due to ability to save officers or soldiers fighting better knowing they have doctors behind them or whatever.

thoughts?

Then I definitely vote for more skill levels of the soldiers. It's true that it's quite insane to wait for months or even years before regulars become vet yet the unit doesn't endure much casualties.
IRL, a soldier who survived a first true fire time was wayyyyy mooore experienced than me playing HoI4 yet. More seriously, I think it would be pleasant and useful to give the troops experience a bit more love.

 

[vermicious knid]

As a general rule I'd prefer that things that don't involve any interesting decisions be abstracted. Hospital is just a binary yes/no, and almost serves as a debuff for players who choose it.

Recon is a good example of how I'd like to see support companies work. Spend more production and research, get a bigger benefit from the support company. Go cheap and minimize research, get a smaller but still meaningful benefit. Exclude completely if the division is just for static defense.

I think I'll tinker and abstract hospitals for my next run. Solid idea.

 

[kaguravitro]

Normally I don't like this kind of abstraction but yes, world be better take off from companies. An alternative is consolidate maintenance and find hospital in one sole companies

 

[Northernwwater]

Hospitals are not viable as an attachment, it's a roleplay feature or noob trap. Majors hardly need it and for minors your should have space marines to prevent losses from happening. The bonus is negligable even for exp saving.

How do you know it is "negligible"? The tech levels up and it is easy to get level 2 by the time war starts and at that level it has 30% trickle back and -20%XP loss.

Experience adds significant bufs to your division so maintaining it can be valuable. Divisions which grind would seem to be the best to have this company on.

I see this as more than role playing. The nice part about support companies is that you can gain bufs for free via research once you pay for the initial addition of the company.

 

[Jafkka]

I agree. I had a similar thought, that countries should see hits to their war support after big casualty events or meeting certain casualty thresholds. The penalty could be substantially higher for democratic nations, lower for the totalitarian ones.

In a recent game, the US received 5 million casualties in the second year of the war. Seems like that would’ve had an impact or been a big deal.

TAGed over to them and they had another 3 mil waiting in the wings. No big deal.

 

[Dalnar]

Imho, Hospitals should be one of the spirits in the officer corps.

 

[pro.gamer.69]

hospitals and other support companies don't need abstraction. what they need is a simple rebalance which makes it so that for a very low cost you can get *some* trickleback (or recon, or reliability, or equipment capture, and maybe the other support company features too) and then you have to pay progressively more to see progressively more returns, or more speed.

 

[Morbus Bubbonicus]

How do you know it is "negligible"? The tech levels up and it is easy to get level 2 by the time war starts and at that level it has 30% trickle back and -20%XP loss.

Experience adds significant bufs to your division so maintaining it can be valuable. Divisions which grind would seem to be the best to have this company on.

I see this as more than role playing. The nice part about support companies is that you can gain bufs for free via research once you pay for the initial addition of the company.

Because i can add rocket or lig or anything else and it will add flat bonus. So instead of losing not that badly I will be winning more easily

 

[Gort11]

The support company techs should give a small passive bonus to all divisions, and then you should be able to get a much bigger bonus by actually attaching the company.

So 1936 hospital tech might provide a 2% trickleback and 1% less XP loss to all divisions, but actually attaching a 1936 field hospital to a division would give you the full 20% trickleback and 10% less XP loss modifiers.

This would mean a division of a generally advanced nation would have lots of small bonuses compared to one of a generally non-advanced nation. At present, Bhutan can research 1936 infantry and support gear, and their infantry battalions are just as good as American ones, even if the Americans know all about engineering, recon, maintenance, hospitals, logistics and signals and Bhutan hasn't even researched support equipment yet.

 

[Corpse Fool]

In order for there to be passive upgrades attached to the template, there would have to be some sort of shadow company, or a company you are forced to take. Like some sort of HQ.

 

[Gort11]

They wouldn't be attached to the template, they'd just be army-wide modifiers affecting every unit.