Should forming Prussia as the Teutonic Order kick you out of the empire?

[zamieo]

The more you know: when the Kingdom of Prussia was established by Friedrick III, the title he acquired was King IN Prussia, and not King OF Prussia. That allowed Prussia to remain in the HRE.

But Frederick the Great became King of Prussia after the partition of Poland, as the Prussian and Brandenburgian lands were now connected.

 

[happymix91]

But Frederick the Great became King of Prussia after the partition of Poland, as the Prussian and Brandenburgian lands were now connected.

These are just cases of elector's becoming king in EU game, so I think that another system for kings under HRE will not be added in near future.

 

[Naeven]

I fully agree that their coexistence should be a constant source of tension, forming Germany would be direct insult to the Emperor and his authority, but the game should not outright forbid it.

Yes, something like this. As I said, I'm not sure.

Another angle I'm missing is the choosing of side for the rest of the HRE members. Some of them hate the Emperor? - take the opportunity to leave with you with a relations bonus to Germany.

 

[WeissRaben]

Not with Germany, Italy, or the Netherlands. They're essentially proto-nation-states, directly contradictory to the idea of the HRE.

Italy... I don't know. It could be seen as an imperial mandate - kinda like OTL Cologne was the Archchancellor of Italy.

 

[Wizzington]

The teutonic decision should also work when a subject, yeah.

 

[zamieo]

Yes, something like this. As I said, I'm not sure.

Another angle I'm missing is the choosing of side for the rest of the HRE members. Some of them hate the Emperor? - take the opportunity to leave with you with a relations bonus to Germany.

I think that'd be great - as long as the Emperor gets a CB that can force them into the HRE again (and they shouldn't be able to leave again for 50 years). Otherwise, the current frequency of states leaving the HRE is pretty good. I'd also welcome if more nations outside the HRE tried to join, like a weakend Provence, the Teutonic Order or East Frisia (they used to join almost every game before, but in the recent patches they rarely join). I'd also go a step further - provinces that aren't part of the HRE do not get the HRE bonuses (-development cost, -2 unrest, etc.). That'd be incentive enough for states to add provinces to the HRE.

 

[WillydaWiller]

The teutonic decision should also work when a subject, yeah.

i've formed prussia as austria and got removed from empire unless i had the constant emperor reform completed, cant remember if capital location mattered
but if capital is in prussian lands, austria leaves empire

 

[happymix91]

i've formed prussia as austria and got removed from empire unless i had the constant emperor reform completed, cant remember if capital location mattered
but if capital is in prussian lands, austria leaves empire

Generic decision which forms Prussia makes you a Kingdom. As Austria isn't an elector, it is WAD. But you can be an elector by integrating Bohemia easily as Austria.

 

[Tacticus101]

I wonder if forming Prussia should make you part of the HRE if you are not already?

They can and they do. And why shouldn't they? Just because they're sort of grabbing at the same justification for existence doesn't mean that one or the other would just pack up and quit.

Because the title "King of Germany" is held by the Holy Roman Emperor. Logically, any attempt to form Germany should either require being Emperor or disbanding the HRE.

 

[happymix91]

I wonder if forming Prussia should make you part of the HRE if you are not already?

Why? There is no connection between Prussian region and HRE. Also duchy of Prussia was formed under Polish rule. Though its title went to elector of Brandenburg, it was because both the elector and duke were Hohenzollern. Just succeded. And the elector could get king-title because Prussian region wasn't under HRE.

 

[Naeven]

Because the title "King of Germany" is held by the Holy Roman Emperor.

This.

Logically, any attempt to form Germany should either require being Emperor or disbanding the HRE.

No, being Emperor should still require disbanding the HRE - A "German solution" inside the HRE system only really works with "Renovatio Imperii", and then the states who didn't want to be part of it had a chance to leave at "Revoke the Privilegia".

 

[Nightwing]

I wonder if forming Prussia should make you part of the HRE if you are not already?

The historical Duchy of Prussia lay well to the east of the HRE's borders. There's no reason why you should join the HRE unless you formed it as Brandenburg or a German state(in which case you're already a part of it).

Because the title "King of Germany" is held by the Holy Roman Emperor. Logically, any attempt to form Germany should either require being Emperor or disbanding the HRE.

I don't see how forming Germany would work as Emperor. As you said, the title "King of Germany" was already held by the Emperor, so technically the country was already(de jure) in existence. No need to form a country that in the Emperor's eyes he already ruled.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Because the title "King of Germany" is held by the Holy Roman Emperor. Logically, any attempt to form Germany should either require being Emperor or disbanding the HRE.

I thought this thing was discussed to death when it was announced that forming certain titles kicks you out of the HRE. And besides, forming Germany now pretty much guts the HRE and makes it a very weak vestigial empire anyway, especially when combined with the Italian states leaving and the big chance of the Netherlands forming and leaving.