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It is safe to say that player can beat the UK in industry as many countries. At least USA, Russia, Germany, Austria, OE, France, Japan and China can do that even without very ahistorical expansions. AI is not that good in handling his economy and industry.
For starters human player should always enact good healthcare, because that is really important for the pop growth. Start collecting money for that from beginning, healthcare is actually ridiculously cheap. Also researching medicine tech early on is important, because that gives you population growth boost.
Internal migration can also be important. You shouldn't build factories in every single state, but only in the best states and let population migrate inside your country into those states you want to develope. Best states are those which have large starting population and good population growth rates.
AI has absolutely no idea about pop handling. Small non national pops as craftsmen and bigger national pops as clerks gives the best outcome.
For starters human player should always enact good healthcare, because that is really important for the pop growth. Start collecting money for that from beginning, healthcare is actually ridiculously cheap. Also researching medicine tech early on is important, because that gives you population growth boost.
Internal migration can also be important. You shouldn't build factories in every single state, but only in the best states and let population migrate inside your country into those states you want to develope. Best states are those which have large starting population and good population growth rates.
AI has absolutely no idea about pop handling. Small non national pops as craftsmen and bigger national pops as clerks gives the best outcome.
Jaeger74 said:
Without pop splitting (which I don't do because it is an exploit - the AI doesn't either - it has plenty of 90k+ pops in factories late in the game) I can't beat their score as Austria. I probably could if I split my pops, but what's the point in winning if there is one rule for you and one for the AI?
Also, I don't have health care. It strikes me as a bit gamey to have good health care (and maybe unemployment benefit because it's cheap) but no other reforms. In reality that would never have happened. Maybe I play too "historically".
Agenor said:
Why not enable the AI to split POPs, you can use the tool in my sig on your savegame.
UK wins in my games because I don't care about the score. I recommend similar approach for your problem.
Meh, if you really hate UK so much. Just tech rush the latest fleet tech. Build 20 of the newest ships. Sink the RN in the channel. Land a 100 or so divs on the UK homeland and place 2 divs on every province. Just keep them at it for 5-10 years and the UK national population will have dropped from 60 million to something close to 15-20. Stupid revolters.
It didn't. I don't have the statistics on hand but by 1900 the German Empire was decisively outstripping the UK in industrial production and was the second largest producer of manufactured goods (after the US) in the world. London did however remain the world's foremost centre of finance capital.Graham111 said:
ComradeOm said:
From Paul Bairoch's International Industrialization Levels from 1750 to 1980.
Dietmar1982 said:Why not enable the AI to split POPs, you can use the tool in my sig on your savegame.
I've thought about this, but it wouldn't help me any. Britain's industrial score would skyrocket if they started to split pops!
Very interesting graph, Goraja. So the US was already number one by 1900, with Germany rapidly gaining on Britian. Well, the game doesn't capture this. Even by 1918 the US's industrial score in my Austrian game was about half that of Britain. Mind you, they still had slavery. Maybe that had something to do with it.
That flatly contradicts everything that I have read on this subject. To quote Hobsbawm's Age of Empire, which I happen to have on hand...Goraja said:
"In the thirty years to 1913 [German industrial exports] grew from less than half the British figure to a figure larger than the British... German manufacturing exports had beaten the English all along the line. They were a third larger in the industrial world, and even 10% larger in the undeveloped world"
Unfortunately Hobsbawm does not provide any handy tables for this particular comparison, but I do recall that Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers had a series that starkly illustrated the relative decline of Britain and the rise of Germany.
Also to help, from Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers:
Per Capita Levels of Industrialization as of 1913
Great Britain 115
United States 126
France 59
Germany 85
Italy 26
Austria 32
Russia 20
Japan 20
Total Industrial Potential of the Powers in Relative Perspective as of 1913
Great Britain 127.2
United States 298.1
Germany 137.7
France 57.3
Russia 76.6
Austria 40.7
Italy 22.5
Japan 25.1
There are a few more graphs if I need to place them on the board.
Per Capita Levels of Industrialization as of 1913
Great Britain 115
United States 126
France 59
Germany 85
Italy 26
Austria 32
Russia 20
Japan 20
Total Industrial Potential of the Powers in Relative Perspective as of 1913
Great Britain 127.2
United States 298.1
Germany 137.7
France 57.3
Russia 76.6
Austria 40.7
Italy 22.5
Japan 25.1
There are a few more graphs if I need to place them on the board.
One reason why a computer controlled UK seems to have high industrial score is that ai converts all labourers from mines into factories. Usually a player would avoid this decision for role playing reasons and also because coal and iron are good money makers.
It is ages since I have played a game in sp, multiplayer is much more interesting and challenging. My experiences in mp is that UK, Germany, USA and Russia are usually the top dogs and all of these have about same ind scores in the end. In our current mp game UK has 8500 points in 1890 (Edit: fixed the year), USA has about 8000, Germany without Bavaria has 7500, France 6500 and Austria (including Bavaria) about 6000. In this game all nations have definetly splitted their pops and the differences are not that big. Some European nations have overseas STATES, which can change the balance quite a lot. UK of course has Canada and South Africa, France has Algeria and Indo-China, Austria has Guinea.
UK has rather small starting national population compared to that of Germany and Russia, so UK have to control his nation well to not fall behind those nations.
It is ages since I have played a game in sp, multiplayer is much more interesting and challenging. My experiences in mp is that UK, Germany, USA and Russia are usually the top dogs and all of these have about same ind scores in the end. In our current mp game UK has 8500 points in 1890 (Edit: fixed the year), USA has about 8000, Germany without Bavaria has 7500, France 6500 and Austria (including Bavaria) about 6000. In this game all nations have definetly splitted their pops and the differences are not that big. Some European nations have overseas STATES, which can change the balance quite a lot. UK of course has Canada and South Africa, France has Algeria and Indo-China, Austria has Guinea.
UK has rather small starting national population compared to that of Germany and Russia, so UK have to control his nation well to not fall behind those nations.
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ComradeOm said:
Just one nitpick - you're speaking about exports, not about total production values. But you're right, UK was declining and Germany rising.
We must remeber here that victoria will not give a totally realistic game unless every event and move is taken historically! Don't expect everything on the game to be correct because a history textbook says so!
Well that might account for discrepancies, but is there a better indicator of relative industrial strength than manufactured exports?Gen. Skobelev said:
France, Britain, Russian, and the United States. Against Germany and Austria-Hungary. That alone speaks volumes as to the relative strength of Germany in 1913.noddy said:
Well, what I was trying to get at was:
Germany was more powerful than UK.
Yet the UK won the war.
But, the UK then lost a war with we Irish, who in turn got independence.
Thus we were the real benefactors of the victory!
The victory didnt exactly turn out good for USA did it? Isolation, Wall Street Crash? EXACTLY.
So in conclusion; Ireland > UK & Germany put together.
Germany was more powerful than UK.
Yet the UK won the war.
But, the UK then lost a war with we Irish, who in turn got independence.
Thus we were the real benefactors of the victory!
The victory didnt exactly turn out good for USA did it? Isolation, Wall Street Crash? EXACTLY.
So in conclusion; Ireland > UK & Germany put together.