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Darkrenown

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Originally posted by robothelpermnky

For those saying Germany must be able to win;
It's arguable that no matter what happens against US production/manpower/resources & Soviet manpower/resources/land it is not concievable that Germany be able to take and hold Europe and/or USSR.

The trick will be avoiding have both of them dow you :)
 

Darkrenown

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Originally posted by Wido


I think you are forgetting the internal front: if Japan had won a lot of battles, and even occupied Hawaii (very difficult), probably the USA citizens would have asked for peace.

Why? They were really pissed off with the japs and were in no danger of losing.
 

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in my opinion Japan had 2 major problems which cost them, wether or not it made is a difference is a matter of debate.

1) The failure to invest in technology. In 1941 the Zero was by far the best fighter plane in the Pacific, Japan had a similiar advantage in other forms of aviation. In 1945 the Japanese will still using virtually the same planes while the allies had advanced in design. This is repeated elsewhere.

2) The failure to escort convoys. The Japanese suffered due to convoy escort duty being seen as being unworthy of a warior this lead to problems in defending Japanese shipping.

These 2 factors did not do Japan any favours.

In the case of Germany in my opinion the real failure was in the invasion of USSR. The objective fo the campiagn was not clear. The directive talked about the destruction of Soviet forces and the occupation of terrorty, but as a focused objective there was none. In fact Hitler kept pushing for economic objectives and the generals kept pushing of political objects. In my opinion the Germans should of been more focussed in their approach.

As for Italy the real problem was industral strength. Italy just could not properly equip the army they had. A smaller but better equiped army could not of done any worse and would of probably doen better.
 

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Originally posted by jpd


The Germans did have a clear objective for Barbarossa. The campaign intended to push like crazy into Russia, encircle and anihilate any Russian opposing armies, and secure the front near the Ural mountains by the time the winter kicked in. Then dig in and defend against the Russians, indefinately if needbe. After securing the front at the Urals, the Germans would then again shift the attention to the western front.

And they very nearly succeeded as well, in 1941. If they hadn't moved Guderian's panzers to army group south in the summer, they would have captured Moskow for sure. And with Moskow out of the way, they would have reached the Ural mountains in time. However, at the time the German high command saw army group center ahead of schedule and army group south running behind (against stiffened opposition), so they desided Guderians' panzer would be best deployed south. That decision, while helping army group south reach their objectives, robbed center from it's main hitting power, thus denying them Moskow before the winter.

I disagree here. I base this on two things.

Firstly we see the German deployment. In France we have three army groups each with a clear objective, C pinning the French on the Marginot Line, B invading Belgium and the Netherlands to draw the allies in and A doing the encircling sweep. all three working in tandem. In Russia the three army groups were North which was going to the Dvina and then no one was sure after that. Centre wich was to encircle the forces at Minsk and then no one knows what, and South which was to drive south for a while. There was no coherent plan of how to achieve the objectives.

The Tensions in the high command. The army consistently drove for poltical objectives. We see Leebs creative obedence in front of Lenningrad abd Guderians obsession with Mosocw, while Hitler very consently went after economic objectives. This does not smack of a coherent plan either.

Originally posted by jpd

As for Italy. That was less of an industrial strength problem, but instead more of a technological choice problem. Especially the Tankettes were of no use at all against the English. Too lightly armored and hopelessy undergunned. The point is, they could have produced better stuff if they had wanted to. Certainly the indusrtial capacity was available.

The Italian Industry had several serious bottlenecks, lacking both Coal and oil to sustain thier industry. This was a serious problem and since they imported most fo thier coal from Britain when they jioned the war they were dependant on German supplies. This did seriously hold back Italy. Just for your interest the Italians were building a tank comperable to the T-34 in 1943 only a few were produced prior to the surrender.

Originally posted by jpd

PS. It is worth noting that both Stalin and Hitler were convinced that war between them was inevitable. It was just a matter who would strike first.

Jan Peter

I totally agree.