Should attachments be removed or redesigned?

[Me_]

A lot has been said about how ground combat could be changed or scrapped, but there is one thing that has always bothered me even more. Attachments are the most impractical aspect of ground combat. There are so uneasy to use, lore-wise, half of them are copies of army types (Xenomorph Xeno Cavalry, Psionic armies with Psi Warriors and Clone Warriors with Clone Commandos).

I think that they either need to be scrapped, or at least adding them should be made more practical. I literally never used them past my second game (in the first I did not even realise they existed), primarily because of how tedious it is to add them to armies. I'd rather build X more assault armies than bother with adding any attachments to existing ones.

What are your opinions on them? Should they be removed? Turned into separate army types? Made easier to use?

 

[General Retreat]

Personally I'd like to see a situation whereby:

• Armies gain attachment slots as they level up with experience: 1, rookie. 2, veteran. 3, elite.
• There is a wider range of attachments with more interesting effects.
• Armies are designed like ships, with attachment configurations specified for particular army types though an army designer.
• Second and third slot attachments are incorporated into the recruitment cost and unlocked in game by the army as it levels up.
• Pipe dream, but these suggestions too.

I also quite like the 'redundant' attachments as well. They're designed so you can match them up with their corresponding army and basically supercharge their strongest characteristic, or pair them up with another army type to round out a weakness or bolster a desired trait. The implementation (as with everything army related) is pretty rough, but conceptually that's a good idea.

 

[The Founder]

What are your opinions on them? Should they be removed? Turned into separate army types? Made easier to use?

Either of the above would work fine.

 

[Topias]

I'm not sure if there's anything that should be done to them at present. The whole ground combat system of armies needs revamping, but until then it'd be odd to expand it, and PDS doesn't seem to advocate simply removing features (a tiny feature as it may be).

Personally, though, I'd be perfectly fine with removing them. They're too fiddly to use, too obscure, too easy to forget, and what little they add is to a very marginal part of the game.

 

[BrokenSky]

I would like it if at the very least you could make armies auto-build with attachments. An army designer would be cool too though.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Nah, attachments are fine as a concept. They prevent armies from being a simple linear progression and reward broader research without bogging down army creation.

Auto-building attachments could be good.

 

[Almond_Brown]

Personally I'd like to see a situation whereby:

• Armies gain attachment slots as they level up with experience: 1, rookie. 2, veteran. 3, elite.
• There is a wider range of attachments with more interesting effects.
• Armies are designed like ships, with attachment configurations specified for particular army types though an army designer.
• Second and third slot attachments are incorporated into the recruitment cost and unlocked in game by the army as it levels up.
• Pipe dream, but these suggestions too.

I also quite like the 'redundant' attachments as well. They're designed so you can match them up with their corresponding army and basically supercharge their strongest characteristic, or pair them up with another army type to round out a weakness or bolster a desired trait. The implementation (as with everything army related) is pretty rough, but conceptually that's a good idea.

Interesting idea but how does an Army gain Exp? Moving from planet to planet while you have a second Occupation force once the planet has been conquered? How do they get EXP? By just being on the ground?

And yes "attachments" are brutal and to use them fully is a click-fest to the extreme. Un-fun for sure. Army builder would be cool but maybe over-kill. When a player clicks "create army" a Pop up opens, asking if you wish an attachment for said Army and the additional cost, if any, is noted. Simply click Yes/No and move on.

 

[Aries666]

Removed

 

[StJimmyRocks92]

I'm probably the only person who is going to hold this opinion but I would like an Army Creator like the ship creator, and just roll the attachments into that.

 

[Almond_Brown]

I'm probably the only person who is going to hold this opinion but I would like an Army Creator like the ship creator, and just roll the attachments into that.

Best case for sure but currently, what might be best, given the few Army types and attachments, a full Creator may be a tad heavy. Perhaps if we applied the K.I.S.S. principle, but somewhat more advanced than the current mind numbing, finger crushing, clickfest we face, Wiz and his Dev buddies, may be more amicable to implementing the idea.

 

[General Retreat]

Interesting idea but how does an Army gain Exp? Moving from planet to planet while you have a second Occupation force once the planet has been conquered? How do they get EXP? By just being on the ground?

The mechanics for experience and ranks are actually already in the game. If you click on an individual army circle that's on a planet's army tab you'll see it has an experience level - rookie, veteran or elite. They appear to level up through combat, in exactly the same way as generals.

Interestingly the rank has absolutely no statistical affect whatsoever, so it appears to be an orphaned feature that was implemented, not really integrated, and then forgotten.

 

[nyah]

Interesting idea but how does an Army gain Exp? Moving from planet to planet while you have a second Occupation force once the planet has been conquered? How do they get EXP? By just being on the ground?

And yes "attachments" are brutal and to use them fully is a click-fest to the extreme. Un-fun for sure. Army builder would be cool but maybe over-kill. When a player clicks "create army" a Pop up opens, asking if you wish an attachment for said Army and the additional cost, if any, is noted. Simply click Yes/No and move on.

So even if we don't want attachments at all we have to click twice for every army?

An army creator wouldn't be overkill. Just an option to define a division with an optional attachment then add them to an army template that can be built with one click on a planet.

 

[WhiteWeasel]

The ability to mass equip ALL armies currently on a planet would would be a really simple fix.

 

[PirateJack]

Given we can set species rights in Banks, I'd suggest letting us select army attachments there, so that any army recruited from a given species has it automatically. It would increase the cost and recruitment time, naturally, but it would mean not having to do the grunt work.

 

[Almond_Brown]

So even if we don't want attachments at all we have to click twice for every army?

An army creator wouldn't be overkill. Just an option to define a division with an optional attachment then add them to an army template that can be built with one click on a planet.

Just add a check box at game creation time then. Attachments (checked or not)
An Army builder would not be that simple. I think WhiteWeasel has a similar thought, just allow each separate army type on Planet to ALL be given an attachment with one click per.

 

[nyah]

Just add a check box at game creation time then. Attachments (checked or not)
An Army builder would not be that simple. I think WhiteWeasel has a similar thought, just allow each separate army type on Planet to ALL be given an attachment with one click per.

I don't see why not? What function would you envisage it having that would make it 'overkill'?

 

[Lothmar]

I'm probably the only person who is going to hold this opinion but I would like an Army Creator like the ship creator, and just roll the attachments into that.

As soon as I read this I started to imagine switching out the weapons / armor / shields my armies used based on my research like a ship ; I was picturing ground defense teams with flak cannons shooting at the incoming shuttles. *chuckle* . Then every army being able to select 1 of several 'formations' like ship bodies that figure out what slots you get for the army. ex: Infanty - three/four small slots ; Heavy weapons team - A medium and a small - Artillery - A large.

Basically treat standard armies like corvett or destroyers for outfitting. Heck maybe expand upon that and more elite army types gain large outfittings, ie Titanic lifeforms being loaded out like battleship bodies. *chuckle*

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But yeah, I honestly think this would be interesting for ground warfare that might actually reflect the research disparity between your two sides. Rather then it being 'We hoard, we stronk! You die now, we take your things!' and getting steamrolled the mongoloids could get disintegrated by plasma. Sure you throw enough meat into the grinder maybe you'll still possibly come out on top, or you wait 2 years for your side to finish researching new weapons and then outfit/train your units over another year and suddenly your armies are twice as effective and you save money and lives.

 

[extrapancake]

The last thing stellaris needs is to be made emptier. Maybe if armies were turned into ship modules it would be a good idea to scrap attachments.

 

[The Founder]

To be honest, I fully expected the Armies to have been removed by now or latest for 1.6 or 1.7.
But the opposite happened: They got a additional purposes.
The whole unrest mechanic is countered by Armies, giving them a whole new purpose to exist.

I still think we might see the removal of the Assault armies. Just swap defense armies to provide Fortification bonus and let planets flip on Foritificaiton loss. It did move further away however.

 

[terrycloth]

To be honest, I fully expected the Armies to have been removed by now or latest for 1.6 or 1.7.
But the opposite happened: They got a additional purposes.
The whole unrest mechanic is countered by Armies, giving them a whole new purpose to exist.

I still think we might see the removal of the Assault armies. Just swap defense armies to provide Fortification bonus and let planets flip on Foritificaiton loss. It did move further away however.

They also added 'wave attacks' to (slightly) increase the importance of army quality. So they don't seem to be really moving towards that.