Should Ahistorical nations be added as formable?

[WeissRaben]

Why should Portugal be able to form Spain? I never get that.

Because, even if NOW Portugal is a polity quite different from Spain, back in 1444 it was one of the component pieces of Iberia, just like Castile, Navarra and Aragon, which managed to remain separated enough to survive. Having, in the end game, the Iberian peninsula divided between Spain and Aragon is just as probable as the OTL situation.

 

[Mikalos]

^There's a Vicky 2 mod, divergences, with that scenario: Portugal-castillian unity with aragon being seperate

 

[Mikalos]

What exactly in the country colour and flag is glorifying the English?

scottish GB using british red (red being english) and with the english cross in the dominant position over the scottish saltire,

it's as silly as portugal forming a very non portugese spain

 

[Centuria]

why do people insist on arguing that A-H should be formable, or that belgium should exist outside the context that created it ;-;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Belgium

Pretty late in the timeframe, yes. Very short lived, yes. But if we have stuff like Arabia, Germany and Romania, we can have Belgium, the only one of these that actually existed in the timeframe.

 

[Kansai-kun]

^There's a Vicky 2 mod, divergences, with that scenario: Portugal-castillian unity with aragon being seperate

That's where I got the idea from. People often forget that we only associate "Spain" with "Castille+Aragon" because that's what happened in our timeline. But history isn't predestined. Take for example the Habsburg Empire which mostly was a result of the right people dying at the right time.

 

[spinoza013]

Spain and Ireland - Iberian Hibernia

Celtic/Scandinavian Empire - Hyperborea

 

[firecage]

scottish GB using british red (red being english) and with the english cross in the dominant position over the scottish saltire,

it's as silly as portugal forming a very non portugese spain

But, Scotland was the one who formed GB, not England. Due to a Scottish Monarch(King James VI) ruling over both England and Scotland.

 

[Mikalos]

which is why the english cross is infront of the scottish saltire, the capital of britain is down in london, england was the one who spent the 100 years of PU doing anything and why he scottish monarchs spent all that time down in london,m right?

Scotland may have formed the PU, but then it reversed into England leading the PU still

 

[yerm]

which is why the english cross is infront of the scottish saltire, the capital of britain is down in london, england was the one who spent the 100 years of PU doing anything and why he scottish monarchs spent all that time down in london,m right?

Scotland may have formed the PU, but then it reversed into England leading the PU still

What are you asking for? Historically, Scotland formed Great Britain with a PU over England, and this happened. What do you want the game to do differently and why?

 

[Mikalos]

What are you asking for? Historically, Scotland formed Great Britain with a PU over England, and this happened. What do you want the game to do differently and why?

the alternative where scotland forming Gb isnt it giving up being scottish in favor of being england GB in all but NI?

 

[firecage]

@Mikolos

Actually, to technically be correct. England formed the PU with Scotland in charge, due to Queen Elizabeth giving the throne over to the King of Scotland....which is weird.

 

[firecage]

the alternative where scotland forming Gb isnt it giving up being scottish in favor of being england GB in all but NI?

Actually, now that you put it like that, that would be nice. But how would we do it without messing some things up.

And on this note. I think Scotland should be stronger so England just doesn't wallop in and take everything over, so both nations have a chance to form GB. And with that, if England forms GB, then the flag should be different.

 

[yerm]

the alternative where scotland forming Gb isnt it giving up being scottish in favor of being england GB in all but NI?

What that's Scottish is given up if you keep the ideas? How is a scot-formed GB not still Scottish in game? Basically, you want the saltire in front of the cross and your capitol in the north sea zone still?

I mean, to play devil's advocate, the historical reality was more similar to the game's starting situation as Poland, where you basically put lith into a pu by taking their monarch for yourself. Still, GB formed by Scotland having a different flag is a stretch no matter how you look at it. England had and still has WAY more land and people; it just makes sense from every perspective, game and historical, to keep the flag. I would think a better argument would be that Scotland should "get" England's NI when they form GB and not be "stuck" with Scotland's!

 

[User4035]

but its still the same formable, complete with same flag and color, having different NI's doesnt change that my country of scotland led britain shjouldnt be glorifying the english part so much, ect ect

You gotta read some history.

The union Jack is a combination of the English Flag and Scottish flag (and the irish one). Its not even a compromise, its a straight forward put one flag on top of the other.
What are they glorifying about the English in 'Great Britain'? Its not called 'Great England'

Also, historically the Stuarts Dynasty is Scottish and the Scottish King become King of England. So in EU4 terms Scotland would have a PU over England.

 

[Mikalos]

You gotta read some history.

The union Jack is a combination of the English Flag and Scottish flag (and the irish one). Its not even a compromise, its a straight forward put one flag on top of the other.
What are they glorifying about the English in 'Great Britain'? Its not called 'Great England'

Also, historically the Stuarts Dynasty is Scottish and the Scottish King become King of England. So in EU4 terms Scotland would have a PU over England.

If i take the effort to beat down england and unify the island as scotland, im not putting the country i just beat downs flag ontop of mine and then moving my capital to theirs.

 

[yerm]

If i take the effort to beat down england and unify the island as scotland, im not putting the country i just beat downs flag ontop of mine and then moving my capital to theirs.

Why not? They've got more people and a better location. Ottomans do that very exact thing in the game; what's the issue here? It makes total sense historically, since it is exactly what happened. It makes total sense in the game, because London is an unquestionably superior location to Edinburgh for a capitol; more bt and way better trade node. There's no good reason not to have the cap move.

What you're basically asking for is the flag to be altered so that Scotland is ever so slightly more prominent than England in it. So, we need a flag and country color editor, basically.

 

[PhroX]

If i take the effort to beat down england and unify the island as scotland, im not putting the country i just beat downs flag ontop of mine and then moving my capital to theirs.

Then just stay as Scotland....

 

[Arizal]

I think custom tags should form when countries of similar size (or with a similar number of cores) fusion. The Commonwealth (of Poland-Lithuania) is a perfect example here, as is the United Kingdom (even if Scotland is smaller than England).

I wouldn't mind if the player could rename at will every country name in the game. However, I wouldn't like, as others said, if the AI renamed itself for no good reason. A dramatic change of primary culture (as if an Austria reduced to Hungary would have renamed itself Hungary) or an integration after a personnal union between two countries of a similar size (England-Scotland, Castille-Aragon, Portugal-Castille) comes to mind. Keeping the same name would then have been a slight for the country, enough to destabilize the new union. So it was necessary to rename the whole.

 

[Mikalos]

i would love a flag and color editor.

And my point again; I didn't just beat down england to turn myself into england anyways. If i wanted to do that, i'd just play england from the beginning.

"just don't form the tag" But i want to unite the nations in a decisive way, just without making doing it as the outside bet pointless.

 

[Druplesnubb]

There's only five tags I'm interested in: Two Sicilies, Yuan (as a Mongolian alternative to Qing), The Great Khanate/The Great Horde ("Mongol Empire" feels too tied to a specific culture), The Kingdom of God and The Caliphate (created from uniting Islam). Might add others if someone comes up with a good suggestion.