Should a future DLC be focused on an economic system?

[B24 Liberator]

In HOI4 the economic system is abstracted by factories and recourses, but I'm playing a mod "Millennium Dawn", and they have an economic system with money and debts and everything. I know HOI4 is mostly a war game above all else, so I don't know if it would make sense to somehow integrate a better economic system in the game. But if it is implemented correctly I think it can add a lot of realism and depth to the game.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

I think it would be a nice idea to have a bit more complex economic system, but not to the level of Millennium Dawn. It wouldn't hurt for economics to have a bit more impact on the course of the war. In fact, this might give democracies a minor advantage as most of the Allies had strong economies prior to the war and would have more GDP to expend on armaments.

Edit: Two words

 

[Sunsteel]

Yes, but with a toggle.

 

[baky123]

I wouldn't be opposed to it if it added depth without becoming onerous. The way that the supply system was reworked feels like a good example of this.
However, I don't want it to just feel tacked on or too complex, because at the end of the day Hoi4 is a wargame. If I want to play an economic simulator, I'd play Vic 2 (which is rather excellent).
More broadly though, I have wanted consumer goods to have an effect, rather than just feeling like a drain. Perhaps they could contribute towards stability, so there's more of a dilemma and tradeoff to increasing mobilisation.

 

[Dimmie_Dumm]

For starters, they could use the tools they already have: i.e. make navies meaningful by goods otherwise requiring a railroad for transit, which capacity is of course finite and running cost rather high.

 

[Sourlol]

I think in general the division of “guns and butter” macroeconomics 101 serves hoi4 well. Debt financing, gold underpinning nations wealth, forex, interest, bonds, etc. may be a bit much for the average hoi player. And further in a total war, which historical and ahistoric hoi4 attempts to simulate/emulate the drawbacks of pulling those levers are not strictly realized until after the war—after the game.

I’d like to see manpower play a bigger role in the economy, I’d like to see intermediate goods in production (make trucks, make artillery, another production to make motorized artillery), I’d like a division between ships that carry oil, dry goods, troops, and those that land troops on beaches and those that land tanks.

I’m not sure there’s gameplay value in all the trappings of playing the role of the central bank—at least not until they add the Great Depression and the Cold War.

 

[Lamartine]

HOI4 is first and foremost a war game. That said I think that there is scope for economics to better address some of the game's problem areas.

It would be good to tie Manpower in with the economy, especially to reduce troop deployments post war and in nations not at war or facing threat of war. Troops are expensive, and their deployment is a huge opportunity cost. The UK should not be able to maintain WWII levels of mobilisation after Germany and Japan are defeated. Venezuela should not be able to mobilise so many divisions at peace with no foreseeable threat even if it is a fascist regime.

 

[Xinamon]

In HOI4 the economic system is abstracted by factories and recourses, but I'm playing a mod "Millennium Dawn", and they have an economic system with money and debts and everything. I know HOI4 is mostly a war game above all else, so I don't know if it would make sense to somehow integrate a better economic system in the game. But if it is implemented correctly I think it can add a lot of realism and depth to the game.

No, it adds nothing. Hoi4 is a wargame not a world simulation.

 

[Malatesta]

Definitely yes

 

[Hoi Neuling]

If they do it like in the Ultra - Historical and Economyc-Mod where you get real Numbers of Planes, Tanks, Factorys, Raw Materials etc., then yes.

There you have Coal, Ironoxide etc. as Raw-Materials and you need special Factorys to make Steal, Alumininum etc. like it is with the synth. Raffs [Ultra-Historical and 1 or 2 other Good ones with that integration].

That would make defenitely sense as well as such such useable Materials as Trade for Ressources you need (Raw Materials or similar).

 

[Putuna]

No money and debt simply do not matter in a total war scenario. The current civs and mills are a better model of what total war is actually like. If the economic system was expanded it would be better to expand the Industrial capacity mechanics rather then adding money and debt.

 

[Sourlol]

If they do it like in the Ultra - Historical and Economyc-Mod where you get real Numbers of Planes, Tanks, Factorys, Raw Materials etc., then yes.

There you have Coal, Ironoxide etc. as Raw-Materials and you need special Factorys to make Steal, Alumininum etc. like it is with the synth. Raffs [Ultra-Historical and 1 or 2 other Good ones with that integration].

That would make defenitely sense as well as such such useable Materials as Trade for Ressources you need (Raw Materials or similar).

Ultra is great, it’s the only version of hoi I play anymore. It works because they have 1200 civs in Germany, vs 80 or some odd factories in vanilla. That increased granularity allows you to trade 1 civ for 90 coal.

without doing that, adding in additional resources and increasing the variety of vehicles (while decreasing the numbers in the board with respect to vanilla) gets real wonky

a single factory in vanilla represents dozens of real life factories, if you add coal, bauxite, and iron—you’d want increased civ and corresponding mic and nic granularity.

 

[xtfoster]

My quick answer would be sure, why not. Then I could say there was a HOI DLC that I didn't buy, since I see no need for it.

 

[Achul]

Do you guys still feel like this game needs more DLCs?

 

[Hoi Neuling]

I see that 2 see it differnent. That People haven´t an clue to bring in important Features and help with them to solve the Problem with the Lag later on.

With the real Numbers Economy, which working perfect, the later Lag-Problem of the Game get solved and it´s running smoother later on. That means the Buildup from Tanks for every Country, the correct Army-Config incl. Maximum Devisions and so on.

What the Economy belongs, in our real World you don´t have Iron, Aluminium, Fuel and similar from directly on. You have to make it from raw Materials. And the most Players wanna have an correct but easy to handle Economy System. And the Ultra - Historical shows how easy that is to make only for the Mining the Raw Materials, Refining Raw Materials and use the Endproduct for buildup what you want.

The only thing is that you need (and I have seen that in other very good Mods too with advanced Tech-Tree) other Factorys to convert the Raw Materials into useable Products. And that the existing Materials on the World Map get changed into the Raw Materials, that´s all.

So you get an correct Industry and Economic System with the existing things (Standard-Factorys, War-Factorys, Synth. Raffs [and with the Economyc Change the Synth. Raffs are much more important]) with the new Convert Industrys [Heavy Industry, Aluminum Mill or what they get called].

If then the Refit from Industry- / Economy R & D-Part come too, then the Economy Mix get perfect. The Groundwork is there the Devs have only to communicate with the Modders like the Modders do with the Devs.

The other Point for an Refit from the Economy, which have begunn with the Barbarossa-Patch [Supply / Streets / Railroad / Depots] is that if the R & D-Part get done correctly there you could not only reduce the Lagging later on on the World Map. You can get an better individual Industry-Management for the Countrys, you can play [Poland, Germany, USA, Canada, UK, Russia or whatever of the cool playable ones and the playable ones which come later on]. The Modders from Ultra have begunn work on to Refit the on that R & D-Tree in that Part.

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

In HOI4 the economic system is abstracted by factories and recourses, but I'm playing a mod "Millennium Dawn", and they have an economic system with money and debts and everything. I know HOI4 is mostly a war game above all else, so I don't know if it would make sense to somehow integrate a better economic system in the game. But if it is implemented correctly I think it can add a lot of realism and depth to the game.

Maybe a mechanic to freely trade resource rights and more portioned those resource rights instead of wholly take the entire oilfields like MTG's Mexico?

A "Trade and Resources" rework with Southeast Asia Expansion Pack would fit nicely, i concur. After all it's Japan's Battlefield, definitely not because of my Indonesian bias.

 

[Casko]

Yes. But not to be as complex and messy as MD.

No hatred on MD as a mod, but man the guys have gone a bit overboard with all the million and 1 different tabs and things running on the background et cetra.

 

[Feeblezak]

I feel like it would be a peacetime only thing.

Once the war starts the money and debts becomes meaningless for the duration. Almost all the combatants became full command economies during the conflict (of course the Soviets were beforehand and the Axis trio arguably so to varying extents), even the US had at least heavy government intervention.

In a total war economy your business, if it is permitted to remain nominally independent, will accept the demands of the government or you will be at the very least removed from your position and replaced by someone who will accept the demands of the government.

The effects of this were felt only after the war was over.

 

[FlinzP]

No, nothing new probaly isn't worth it anymore. If there was dlc that improves ja fixes old features it would be fine slightly rework old system. I like most dlc as idea but not one. That is La Resistance. I don't find it bad but not really what I wanted. Good thing it fixed manual garrisoning but same time it became weird sink. Spying is not fun minigame and garrisons just are there (not even fighting even tho it's large armed force). Very often people just do same things with spies and garrisons.

I wouldn't like economy becoming similiar thing which you "automate" on same tracks every game. Rather polish things than put layers on layers different small things that won't work together well and computer opponent still remains on vanilla level with them.

 

[JayPee]

Yes. But not to be as complex and messy as MD.

No hatred on MD as a mod, but man the guys have gone a bit overboard with all the million and 1 different tabs and things running on the background et cetra.

This is the exact reason why I no longer play Millennium Dawn, it seems like things were added to bloat the mod instead of enhance it