ships being built by others

[gadajs]

I will look for a Link, but I definitely remember King saying that this would not be possible.

 

[Orinsul]

in an investment dairy maybe, but a money one anyway i think. I was thinking of Brits building ships for the turks.
And i dont think a reason was given, just a No

 

[unmerged(174860)]

reason: cba

 

[Rhion]

in an investment dairy maybe, but a money one anyway i think. I was thinking of Brits building ships for the turks.
And i dont think a reason was given, just a No

The reason is that such a feature is too exploitable. Simply put, the AI isn't advanced enough (yet) to handle it, leaving it open to serious abuse from the player. And I agree, put this feature in the game, and you'll get players ruling the waves with the great Dreadnought Fleet of Siam.

 

[unmerged(174694)]

Yeah i think you 'll just buy the materials from the WM and build them yourself if you got the technology. Check the capital shipyard - hulls product in VIP.

 

[unmerged(188040)]

The reason is that such a feature is too exploitable. Simply put, the AI isn't advanced enough (yet) to handle it, leaving it open to serious abuse from the player. And I agree, put this feature in the game, and you'll get players ruling the waves with the great Dreadnought Fleet of Siam.

That is very reasonable reason. If you really wanted to simulate this, I guess you could (with some self policing to ensure the conditions were met) maybe edit the save game to give yourself the ship and subtract the money. Not even sure it would work, but if you can and you were honest with your game it could be a work around, albeit not perfect, and can only really work for your country and not any AI nation.

Thoughts on this?

 

[unmerged(174860)]

Thoughts on this?

if u have to edit a save to accomplish something it shows a major flaw in the game itself imo

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

The reason is that such a feature is too exploitable. Simply put, the AI isn't advanced enough (yet) to handle it, leaving it open to serious abuse from the player. And I agree, put this feature in the game, and you'll get players ruling the waves with the great Dreadnought Fleet of Siam.

Yet? Artificial Intelligence in video games hasn't made any advancements since 1986... Everyone is more focused on providing a game instead of making it fun to play; with simple programs that execute simple commands and track simple strings that are passed off as "learning".

Even then, the most advanced computers in the world find it very difficult to make toast without human oversight. This despite that every detail of the toast making process was meticulously programmed into the system. I mean, autopilot programs are designed to simply keep a plane at x altitude, x speed, x direction using only on-board instruments: still, without a human paying attention to it (and sometimes even when they pay careful attention to it) an autopilot is still proficient at taking a plane out of the sky. These take up huge multi-servers to boot.

AI is more smoke and mirrors than "intelligence".

 

[Projekt 919]

The reason is that such a feature is too exploitable. Simply put, the AI isn't advanced enough (yet) to handle it, leaving it open to serious abuse from the player. And I agree, put this feature in the game, and you'll get players ruling the waves with the great Dreadnought Fleet of Siam.

I'm no software writer or game designer (i'm only 15) but i have looked at paradox scripts for thier games and edited them a little, and also looked at the hardcoded game with the frhed hexaeditor, but couldn't one have it set to where a AI nations militarism and income and foriegn relations affected its likelyness to do it. Looking at HOI3/EU3/HTTT event scripts, maybe one could write an event that would allow something similar to this to happen, but the AI wouldn't have to handel it in any complicated way ( say event "modern warship availible from foriegn shipyard' two options Purchase or Not and say have different degrees of the event ( event 7001, 7002 7003 .....). like..........

1st degree- yes - Gain 1.00 prestige - Relations with __________ improved by 10 lose 100 money gain DD ( or other light ship availible at time)

no- lose 1.00 prestige, gain 1 stability (or other Equivelant political factor)


2nd degree- yes - Gain 2.00 prestige - Relations with __________ improved by 15 lose 180 money gain light cruiser ( or other lightish ship availible at time)

no- lose 2.00 prestige, gain 1 stability (or other Equivelant political factor)

3rd degree- yes - Gain 3.00 prestige - Relations with __________ improved by 20 lose 250 money gain protected cruiser ( or other medium ship availible at time)

no- lose 3.00 prestige, gain 1 stability (or other Equivelant political factor)

4th degree- yes - Gain 4.00 prestige - Relations with __________ improved by 30 lose 400 money gain armored cruiser ( or other medium-large ship availible at time)

no- lose 4.00 prestige, gain 2 stability (or other Equivelant political factor)

5th degree- yes - Gain 5.00 prestige - Relations with __________ improved by 40 lose 800 money gain battleship ( or other large ship availible at time)

no- lose 3.00 prestige, gain 3 stability (or other Equivelant political factor)

perhaps an infamy gain if you said yes as well, but maybe it could be written as a event
the only problem is the other nation doesn't have to actually build it

 

[henryjai]

I thought this is not difficult as you could simply set a condition of whether to sell or not sell. Let's say, you won't sell ships to a nation whose naval power is at least 0.5 times of yours. This condition could be "merged" with that of the naval race thing. Let's say Great Britain would try to maintain a fleet 2x than all nations combined

In that way, let's say GB have 150 small, 50 medium, and 20 large ships. Your chance of purchase would be impossible (or very expensive) if you try to buy a fleet of more than 75 small ships, 25 medium ships, and 10 large ships.

I think for large ships it might be better 1/4, but I would still think that this is simple algebraic operations to sell or not sell.

To buy or not buy? I would think that it is straightforward, a nation should always try to get the latest ships possible. Let's say GB offers Destroyers, Pre-dreadnoughts. A Japan AI, knowing that he cannot build Pre-dreadnoughts, the AI would, according to her "military race" AI, have a target a X Pre-dreadnoughts in her fleet, so the AI would purchase the ships from other AI nations, they should always be paying the full money for that.

I would think of the same for China, after so many defeats their AI should naturally want to construct a powerful fleet, thus they buy ships from Germany for a modern fleet. Of course, the rule of not selling too many fleets should still hold, but I again do not see really complicated relations between such buying/selling. (Really, I think any of your background programs running are more complicated than that.)

 

[Featauril]

I don't think it's particularly crucial to the game.

They can't do everything, you know. The more they dilute their efforts, the bigger the chance it's like HoI3 where nothing worked right at Launch.

 

[henryjai]

I don't think it's particularly crucial to the game.

They can't do everything, you know. The more they dilute their efforts, the bigger the chance it's like HoI3 where nothing worked right at Launch.

It is crucial to let Japan defeat Russia in the Russo-Japanese war... I mean, the AI Japan is still using raiders in 1910(and probably some monitors), wtf? The AI Spanish/Russian/Turkish/Italian Navy is also a joke.

 

[Projekt 919]

It is crucial to let Japan defeat Russia in the Russo-Japanese war... I mean, the AI Japan is still using raiders in 1910(and probably some monitors), wtf? The AI Spanish/Russian/Turkish/Italian Navy is also a joke.

Agreed, japan on its own in real life even with the mejii reforms was in 1905 incapable of building domestically anything larger than a medium sized cruiser at a stretch, also considering the fact that japan was a major naval power only because it could buy ships from britain and france the lack of this feature would drastically effect the balence of power in east aisia from the 1880's onward with china and japan buying all those foriegn vessels, the game shouldn't be made to where japan always wins the russo japanese war, but that it is a 50-50 chance, had the russian fleet reached vladivostock, rested repaired and resupplied, the war might have taken a nasty turn for the japanese.

Edit: if they took the evnt approach, while slightly less accurate, should'nt take them more than a few hours at most to write.

 

[Projekt 919]

Perhaps the event could look something like this (EU3/HTTT event based) same platform as EU3 so should be similar

####################################################
# Foreign Naval Vessel Availible #
####################################################

# Number of cities: < 5
country_event = {

id = 26000

trigger = {
{ num_of_cities = 5 }
treasury = 120
not = has_building = shipyard
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 18 # Random Country Event

modifier = {
factor = 2.0
dip = 4
}

}

title = "EVTNAME26000"
desc = "EVTDESC26000"

option = {
name = "EVTOPTA26000" # power to us
ai_chance = { factor = 65 }
owner = { treasury = -100 }
prestige = 0.01
stability = -1
random_owned = {
limit = { contolled_by = THIS }
light_ship = current
}
option = {
name = "EVTOPTB26000" # Self-reliance is the way
ai_chance = { factor = 35 }
prestige = -0.01
stability = 1
owner = { treasury = 20 }
}
}

# Number of cities: < 20
country_event = {

id = 26001

trigger = {
{ num_of_cities = 20 }
treasury = 900
not = has_building = shipyard
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 36 # Random Country Event

modifier = {
factor = 2.0
dip = 6
}

}

title = "EVTNAME26001"
desc = "EVTDESC26001"

option = {
name = "EVTOPTA26001" # power to us
ai_chance = { factor = 65 }
owner = { treasury = -800 }
prestige = 0.05
stability = -2
random_owned = {
limit = { contolled_by = THIS }
big_ship = current
}
option = {
name = "EVTOPTB26001" # Self-reliance is the way
ai_chance = { factor = 35 }
prestige = -0.05
stability = 2
owner = { treasury = 180 }
}
}

Such an event would mean you would need a certain number of cities for the event to happen (different for each type of ship) as well as garunteeing its not some diplomatic option the AI or a human can abuse

 

[Grunthex]

if u have to edit a save to accomplish something it shows a major flaw in the game itself imo

No. If you have to edit a save to accomplish something THAT IS INTENDED BY THE DEVELOPERS, then there's a flaw. It's not a flaw if they never intended to incorporate every feature dreamed up by players.

 

[Projekt 919]

No. If you have to edit a save to accomplish something THAT IS INTENDED BY THE DEVELOPERS, then there's a flaw. It's not a flaw if they never intended to incorporate every feature dreamed up by players.

But logically, if they took the event approach (which I like for not being able to be taken advantage of by AI or Player) would not take too long to put in and could add signifigantly more possibilities to a non-european nation and make the game much more in depth and entertaining to play as a non-european nation that is modernizing (ottoman empire, japan, china, siam, ethiopia even) or a western nation lacking in shipbuilding capabilities (brazil, argentina, chile, peru, greece, even russia after the 1905 disaster which destroyed thier navy) I just feel it was a important factor in the period. To be quite honest, almost anyone who could savegame edit could probably put the event in themselves........

 

[henryjai]

I wouldn't mind if it would be for the expansions. We can't have the perfect game at start right?

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

It is crucial to let Japan defeat Russia in the Russo-Japanese war... I mean, the AI Japan is still using raiders in 1910(and probably some monitors), wtf? The AI Spanish/Russian/Turkish/Italian Navy is also a joke.

You're forgetting that Japan probably isn't going to be forced into the Russo-Japanese war. But foreign ship makers would make the game a lot more balanced.


Really, abusing the AI is a pretty bad reason to take the AI away (for that specific feature). They should just devote more time to working for a fix, making the AI more staunch. I mean, Civilization games have pretty good trading system, and you can't just beat the AI in bargaining by being ridiculous (didn't play vicky, wouldn't know how they abused the AI). Well, a meticulously programmed AI is possible, it just might be outside Paradox's means.

I mean, its single player anyway. If people want to cheat, why not let them cheat? You're going to force them to be 'immersed'?

 

[Rhion]

I wonder if the people of P'dox laugh, cry or facepalm every time they read "how easy it would be" to put something in the game.

And the problem with making it an events proposed here is obvious. On the one side you have ships appearing from nowhere, and on the other side you have money leaving the game. All the while P'dox is working really hard to close the cycle of goods and money as much as possible.

 

[Projekt 919]

I wonder if the people of P'dox laugh, cry or facepalm every time they read "how easy it would be" to put something in the game.

And the problem with making it an events proposed here is obvious. On the one side you have ships appearing from nowhere, and on the other side you have money leaving the game. All the while P'dox is working really hard to close the cycle of goods and money as much as possible.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: laughed when i saw this, even if you are making fun of my thread!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Edit: BTW I see your point, I just came to the conclusion of this being the only unexploitable way, also i'm just a novice at writing events for paradox games and other modding on paradox, so anyone who could write a better event with a more closed cycle would be awesome ( Also I did'nt play Vic 1 so i don't know all the resources, i was 8 when vic 1 came out!!!)